Speaker 1: 0:00

Hi, I'm Shelly Maurer and I'm Cher Emrick. Welcome to Life.

Speaker 2: 0:05

Lessons from Pickleball where we engage with pickleball players from around the world about life on and off the court.

Speaker 1: 0:12

Thanks for joining us. Welcome everyone to Life Lessons from Pickleball. We are really jazzed today because today we have with us Roger Belair, who is going to help us understand what is the connection between pickleball and prisons. But first, Roger, it's so great to have you here.

Speaker 3: 0:34

I'm really excited. This is really going to be terrific.

Speaker 1: 0:39

We are really jazzed, really jazzed. And for 30 years you were a highly respected financial professional in the Seattle area and beyond, and you've written several books on investment and have been quoted in many publications, including the New York Times and Wall Street Journal. And then you found your passion in a word pickleball.

Speaker 3: 1:03

That's right, and I can tell you that pickleball is a lot more fun than finance.

Speaker 2: 1:08

How were you introduced to pickleball, Roger? Tell us.

Speaker 3: 1:11

Well, I started playing locally and about 14, 15 years ago I loved the game All right. And then I met David McCollum, who is Barney McCollum's son. If you don't recognize that name, he's one of the three founders. All right, there was Joe Pritchard, Bill Bell and Barney McCollum and we just hit it off. You know, I like to say friends are found rather than made. You could sit next to somebody for 30 years and never get close and then meet somebody at a party and you know you're just, you just connect. And that's what happened with Barney and myself and we got to be pretty good friends and then, as I got involved in prisons, he was fascinated by that and so we really bonded, not only at Pickleball, but also about prisons.

Speaker 1: 1:58

So how did you get involved working with prisons?

Speaker 3: 2:07

Well, you know, what I like to say, cher, is I drank the Kool-Aid Like a lot of us pickleball players. We taste it, we like it and we're connected right, and that's what happened to me. And, coming from a professional speaking background, it was really easy for me to start teaching this sport. You know, I was pretty good at it, I understood it. I like to tell people what to do. So I started teaching the sport and then my wife and I watched 60 Minutes, oftentimes on Sunday night. So we're watching one night and they had a segment on Sheriff Tom Dart, who does his best to run Cook County Jail in Chicago, does his best to run Cook County Jail in Chicago and, as you can imagine, what a challenging job that is.

Speaker 3: 2:48

Yeah, they got 80,000 guys mostly guys that go through there every year and I'm watching this segment and they're just sitting around, they're playing cards, they're talking, they're watching TV. And I said to my wife they should be playing pickleball. They would not only get exercise but learn life lessons like thinking about consequences, learning from mistakes. And my wife just kind of nodded and I watched a little bit more of the segment and I said I'm going to write Sheriff Dart and tell him exactly what I think.

Speaker 1: 3:29

Now, do you know this guy? No, he never heard of me.

Speaker 3: 3:33

I said I'm going to tell him exactly what I think. I'll go back there to Chicago. I'll teach those inmates and staff the game. I'll bring all the equipment, pay all my expenses.

Speaker 3: 3:45

There's no reason he can say, no, well, he gets this letter. Never heard of pickleball, and he hears from a lot of kooks and he had no idea if I was just one more Puts the letter on the side of his desk and the next thing that happens, I understand, is over the dinner table. He's got two or three kids. He says I got this letter from this guy today, something about balls and pickles and I don't know, from Seattle. Ten-year-old daughter puts her hands on her hips and says Dad, I'll tell you about pickleball.

Speaker 3: 4:23

Oh, wow, but had it been for that little girl, we wouldn't be talking today. I'll tell you about pickleball, oh my gosh. But had it been for that little girl, we wouldn't be talking today.

Speaker 1: 4:30

Wow, so then what happened?

Speaker 3: 4:33

Yeah, keep going, this is good Well he reached out and he says if you're sincere and you're paying all your expenses, I have nothing to lose. You know, come on back. And so I go back to Chicago, I pull up with an Uber up to Cook County Jail and the thought that goes through my mind as I see this sign that says maximum security is what have I done?

Speaker 3: 4:55

Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm almost 70 years old and I look around and the place is huge, it's like 72 football fields, that's the size of it. Oh my gosh and I'd never. And that place is huge, it's like 72 football fields, that's the size of it.

Speaker 1: 5:05

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3: 5:07

And I'd never been in jail. You know, I had my car towed once because I was a legally parked and that was it. That's my background.

Speaker 2: 5:16

That's your rap sheet.

Speaker 3: 5:18

Yeah, that's my rap sheet and what goes on the inside. So I go through clearance. I find myself standing in front of about 25 guys All charged with either murder or attempted murder, and I thought what I'd do is just give them a little background about Joe Pritchard and how it started on Bainbridge Island, and I'll tell you. Ladies, it wasn't working. I mean, arms were crossed, I couldn't even get eye contact and I didn't know what I was going to do.

Speaker 3: 5:52

You know, I didn't know if I'd be on an airplane that night, but it certainly wasn't working. So I said, well, let's go to the courts. And I would say, after we got to the courts it took about 15 minutes.

Speaker 4: 6:07

Wow.

Speaker 3: 6:08

They turned in from these very tough dudes to like third graders on the playground. Giving each other high fives I say, and one day I went from OG. You know what OG is.

Speaker 1: 6:24

OG yeah old guy.

Speaker 3: 6:24

Oh, old guy, okay, I went from, OG you know what?

Speaker 4: 6:26

OG is OG. Yeah, old guy, oh, old guy okay.

Speaker 3: 6:27

I went from OG to either bro or dude Alright, cool, yeah, and I was back there for a week. It was a tremendous week. Alright, the third time I've been there three times. The third time a sports reporter was there for you I'd say there three times the third time a sports reporter was there for USA.

Speaker 3: 6:48

Today. Wow, yeah, to write a story for the sports page. He interviewed me the inmates, of course and then he calls me up a couple days later and says Roger, I don't know how to tell you this, but it's not going to be on the sports page. My heart dropped. I had told my nosy neighbor, I told the guys at the gym, I'm going to have all this egg all over my face. They kind of chuckled and he said well, the editors read my story and they're going to put it on the front page.

Speaker 1: 7:23

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3: 7:25

Front page of the.

Speaker 1: 7:26

USA.

Speaker 3: 7:27

Today, back when they had a single column and a major story.

Speaker 2: 7:30

Whoa, wow, that's incredible.

Speaker 1: 7:33

What year was that Roger?

Speaker 3: 7:35

17, 18, something like that.

Speaker 3: 7:37

My God, I think yeah, I went back there in 17 for the first time and I think it came out in 18. And anybody that's listening to this, they can Google my name and USA Today and pull it up. But here's what I want to share with you about that piece. It's a lot of it's kind of as you would expect, but there's two really significant parts. One is from Jim Edmonton. He's the head of recreation back there and he said disciplinary problems are down.

Speaker 3: 8:07

Wow, guys want to play so much that they behave themselves. Oh Right, and if they get into trouble they can't play pickleball. Oh, and isn't that wonderful for everybody? Yes, it's wonderful for the guys that are in there, guilty or innocent, waiting to go in front of the judge. It's great for the staff. You know, when you can reduce violence, when you can reduce disciplinary problems, that's wonderful, huge. But here's what's even more significant when you guys read the article, you pull it up online. There's a picture of me sitting on the bench with a guy, clarence, and as that picture is taken, clarence is pointing out to the courts and says Roger, look out there. Well, I look out there and all I see is a bunch of bangers. You know there's no finesse. I mean, how hard can we hit the ball right? And he said you don't understand. He says this is Chicago. We have 70 major gangs. They have over 100,000 members. You got opposite gang members out there playing with and against each other.

Speaker 1: 9:23

Oh my gosh Before. Pickleball, some of them wouldn't even, and against each other. Oh my gosh Before pickleball.

Speaker 3: 9:27

Some of them wouldn't even talk to each other.

Speaker 4: 9:31

Wow, oh my gosh.

Speaker 3: 9:34

So how is that for breaking down barriers?

Speaker 1: 9:37

How is that for breaking?

Speaker 2: 9:40

down barriers.

Speaker 1: 9:41

Oh my gosh, that is so touching.

Speaker 3: 9:45

You know you mentioned earlier I came from the corporate world and I did. And when you were saying that I was thinking about, in the corporate world they bring you together for a meeting about a sensitivity issue and everybody knows to say the right thing if they believe it or not? And maybe it changes some minds. Let's hope it does. But you contrast that where two groups of people that hate each other will voluntarily come together and laugh together. You just got to know that something good is going to come out of that.

Speaker 1: 10:24

Isn't that amazing? And it's even you know, it occurs to me because I know they also can shoot hoops and things on the court there in many prisons and things, but that game doesn't bring out the laughter about pickleball that brings out such childish joy even for hardened, experienced people in prison.

Speaker 3: 10:56

You know, Barney and I spent hours talking about that and he told me at the time pickleball is the most social sport ever created. Everybody has problems, but when you're out on the court, you're just thinking about hitting that ball over the net. That's it.

Speaker 3: 11:13

Right and the laughter and when somebody missed an easy shot. But it's a social aspect and you've got these short games and what happens? People go to the sidelines and you form all this community and everybody that plays the game knows what they what I mean by that new friends. You mentioned basketball. So yeah, I've been. I've been in more prisons than al capone.

Speaker 3: 11:39

All right, you know I've been around the block and one of the prison officials told me he says you know, the most popular sport on the inside is basketball. They grew up with it.

Speaker 1: 11:51

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 11:52

But basketball is dominated by the tall, the young, the athletic. Everybody else is on the sidelines.

Speaker 4: 11:58

Oh.

Speaker 3: 11:59

And not only that, but basketball is played so aggressively on the inside that there's all kinds of injuries. Yeah, all right.

Speaker 4: 12:09

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 12:10

Some prisons want to outlaw it because of that. You compare it to pickleball Easy to learn, very inclusive, that everybody can do it. It's social, it's fun and it's practically injury-free, because 25-year-olds when they fall down they just bounce back up. They're not like the rest of us where somebody wants to call 911, right, right. So what a comparison.

Speaker 4: 12:37

Yeah. So, is it still going strong in that initial?

Speaker 3: 12:42

the first prison you went to, oh Chukot County. Yeah, of course, yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:47

You've been to more.

Speaker 3: 12:49

Well, sure you know, publicity opens doors, and the next thing I ended up doing is going to Rikers Island. Now, are you familiar with that in New York City?

Speaker 1: 12:59

Oh yeah.

Speaker 3: 13:01

And, oh yeah, they have their problems, so many problems, that the city council has voted to close down Rikers Island in a couple of years. It's practically imaginable. It's so big, all right, it's practically imaginable. It's so big, all right. And it's a very difficult place. And I was there for a week. The deputy commissioner was so impressed when I left.

Speaker 1: 13:25

He ordered pickleball equipments for 20 courts 20 courts, 20 courts.

Speaker 3: 13:27

They have about 100,000 men that go through there, men and women, but over 90% of the inmates are men. Like my wife says, all women know that men are the ones that cause the problems right.

Speaker 1: 13:43

She's a wise woman.

Speaker 3: 13:45

Most women are, but it's just true. Most of the violence, most of the problems are really caused by men. Anyway, but but but that's what happened back at Rikers Island, and I was recently back there, three, four months ago. Uh, I spent a week back there once again, uh, you know, helping them out, teach them again the game, because they have, of course, huge turnover.

Speaker 1: 14:09

Yeah, yeah. So when you went to Rikers, you taught the inmates there as well, like you did at the previous one, and then you leave it and somebody else is running it while you're gone.

Speaker 3: 14:26

All right. What I like to say is you can learn it after breakfast and by lunchtime you're pretty good and true.

Speaker 3: 14:36

It's true. And then you can also teach others. I mean, I'll share this with you because I think you'll enjoy it and I've taught about 4000 people, wow, wow, including in your local community where you live. And the way I teach it is, I say there's only four rules, you know. First of all, when you serve, you got to serve it underhanded, right. The second rule is a two balance rule. The third rule relates to the kitchen and the no volley zone, all right, where anybody plays pickleball. Know that. And then I teach people how to play, score or score, and I I say this is the hardest part of the game. You got to count it really is.

Speaker 1: 15:20

What the heck?

Speaker 3: 15:21

and everybody's oh, it's just too complicated. All right, okay. So then here's. You know, on the outside I teach rule number four slightly different than I do on the inside. I say for on the outside, well, afterwards what we do is we meet at the net and we tap paddles. All right, good game right Now. On the inside, what I do is I say to the guys, because they're just goosey now, I mean, they're just so excited, they're learning how to play the game. You know, they figured out the scoring. And I say, guys, how many rolls are there? Somebody will say three, somebody said wait a minute. You said four. So I said what's the fourth roll? And they say you haven't told us yet. I said we just finished the game right. We got the gold medal winners and we got those silver medal winners right.

Speaker 4: 16:15

So what we do, after the game is we have a group hug, oh.

Speaker 3: 16:20

They freeze.

Speaker 1: 16:22

They freeze.

Speaker 3: 16:23

They freeze. They heard what I said, but this old guy from Seattle? No way in hell are they giving each other a group hug? You gotta remember who they are, and the life they've lived, and for most of them, or many of them, it's been from the day they were born.

Speaker 4: 16:42

All right, they're tough.

Speaker 3: 16:44

They've had a very difficult life. They're unloved, they're unwanted many times when they come into it. And you got this idiot saying we're going to have a group hug, and part of the reason I do it is just to see the expression on their faces.

Speaker 4: 16:58

Right.

Speaker 3: 16:59

Right. So what I do is I go up to the net and I put my paddle up and I motion them to come in. We tap paddles. I said in pickleball that's called a group hug.

Speaker 1: 17:09

Nice.

Speaker 3: 17:12

It's one of the rules and you will follow it. And so after every game you hear people saying group hug everybody.

Speaker 4: 17:21

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3: 17:23

And that's something I'm going to start saying group hug now.

Speaker 4: 17:25

I am too. I am group hug when we tap our towels for sure. That's so great.

Speaker 2: 17:32

Now a case of tears.

Speaker 3: 17:34

Yeah you've got me in tears here that is too touching occasionally somebody will say roger, is that really one of the rules, or did you make that up? And I say it's absolutely one of the rules, absolutely yeah. Who are they going to ask the warden? The warden, who's gonna?

Speaker 1: 17:53

going to know. Oh man, I love that.

Speaker 3: 17:57

I can guarantee you, somewhere in this country today, you know guys are playing on the inside Certainly more than one side, and after a game they're saying group hug everybody.

Speaker 1: 18:08

Oh my gosh, what a fantastic way to name that and just helps reframe what it means to be in relationship with these fellow prisoners. Oh my gosh, what a sweet thing. Good for you, Roger. Oh my gosh, how many prisons have you introduced Pickleball to?

Speaker 3: 18:30

Well, 17, 18, 19, something like that, oh my gosh, yeah, 17, 18, 19, something like that.

Speaker 1: 18:35

Oh my gosh yeah 17, 18, 19, something like that. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3: 18:40

Mm-hmm. So you know, sometimes it's the way they want to count it and they'll have two prisoners combined to one and things like that. But so that was Rikers. And then it's just kind of moved forward from there. I went down to Florida, for example. They wanted me to come down there. I spent a week in Florida. Florida has the third largest inmate population of any state.

Speaker 1: 19:09

Oh wow, I didn't know that.

Speaker 3: 19:10

Yeah, after I came back, the head of education wrote me a letter and said this was a massive success. Wow, the impact you've had on the Florida Department of Corrections is immeasurable.

Speaker 4: 19:27

Wow.

Speaker 3: 19:28

And of course it's not me, it's that little plastic ball.

Speaker 1: 19:33

But it's you, Roger.

Speaker 3: 19:33

It's that little plastic ball but it's you, roger.

Speaker 4: 19:36

I mean I'm just getting chills thinking about, I mean I'm going to cry. You watched that episode and you had an idea and you followed through and look at what an impact it's had.

Speaker 1: 19:51

It's amazing it really is.

Speaker 4: 19:52

It's incredible. I mean, that's a life lesson, a huge life lesson to all of us. In itself, right is to really follow through on things. I mean, wow, I'm just so moved by this.

Speaker 1: 20:05

I am too. Yeah, you had that inspiration, yeah.

Speaker 3: 20:10

Well see. I never expected really any of this to happen, but I'm somewhat of an out of the box thinker and I'm reactionary and so. But you know, florida is a great example, new York is a great example. Do you want one more?

Speaker 1: 20:33

Yeah, many, many more. Yeah, alright well.

Speaker 3: 20:37

So I'm sitting at my desk one day and I get an email from the warden at San Quentin, san Quentin, san Quentin, now San Quentin. San Quentin has more people on death row than any other prison in the western hemisphere. Yes, aww so I called my best friend. I said you won't believe this. I just got an email from the warden at San Quentin. You know what he said they're finally catching up with you.

Speaker 1: 21:07

That rap sheet's going to get longer, yeah.

Speaker 3: 21:11

The warden says can we have a conference call tomorrow with a couple of my lieutenants? We did, and I thought I'd start by just saying hey, let me tell you about some of the benefits of pickleball on the inside. And he goes Roger, I've done my homework. When can you be here?

Speaker 1: 21:29

Wow, oh man.

Speaker 3: 21:32

So Folsom remember who was that singer Folsom Blues.

Speaker 4: 21:36

Johnny Cash, johnny Cash, johnny Cash. They found out about it.

Speaker 3: 21:39

They said, well, we want you to come here too, and a couple other prisons in Northern California. And so I'm coordinating things with San Quentin and I say, hey, you know, it would be great if we could get some, maybe staff members, to participate, maybe even leadership.

Speaker 1: 21:55

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3: 21:56

And they said well, roger, this is San Quentin. It's been around for 170 years. Nothing like that's ever happened. We have unique problems at San Quentin, it's just the way it is. And they said I hope you understand. You know I did. It wasn't what I wanted to hear. But I go through the gates of San Quentin, there's all these microphones pushing on my face and cameras rolling and it's like a press conference. I go off the court and there's a warden holding a paddle ready to play.

Speaker 4: 22:35

Wow, wow, that gave me chills.

Speaker 3: 22:37

Wow. You know, and I've been very blessed in my life with a lot of publicity. I've been on the cover story of Money Magazine, I've been profiled in the Washington Post, but the piece I'm most proud of was done by the inmates at San Quentin. It's called Uncuffed. It's a podcast.

Speaker 1: 23:02

Uncuffed.

Speaker 3: 23:03

Uncuffed.

Speaker 4: 23:04

Okay.

Speaker 3: 23:05

And in that podcast you have inmates saying things like what a mind-blowing experience. I couldn't believe corrections officers out on the courts playing with inmates. Could you believe the warden was actually out there? That's something that's never happened at San Quentin in 170 years. Maybe this was the day that changed San Quentin.

Speaker 4: 23:34

Wow, wow, yeah, oh.

Speaker 3: 23:40

Those are direct quotes from the piece.

Speaker 1: 23:42

That's just phenomenal. Yeah, it is.

Speaker 3: 23:50

San Quentin is trying to change and my timing was perfect. The recidivism rate in this country is about 65%.

Speaker 1: 23:58

It's ridiculous, yeah.

Speaker 3: 24:00

And you compare it to someplace like Norway, that's about 20%. Wow, and what Governor Newsom recognizes is that what do they do different than we do? And the mindset in this country is you did something wrong, you're going to be penalized for it. You do it again and you're going to be penalized worse it. You do it again and you're going to be penalized worse. In Norway, what they're saying is let's rehabilitate people, let's figure out what their challenges are, let's give them skills so they can be productive members of our society and pickleball at San Quentin came along exactly at the right time, geez.

Speaker 4: 24:45

Wow, so what year? When was this? You were in San Quentin 23.

Speaker 1: 24:50

23?

Speaker 4: 24:50

Just last year, oh my gosh Just last year.

Speaker 1: 24:53

Roger, my undergrad was criminology. I got a bachelor's in criminology because I wanted to design alternatives to prison, but then found out that it was a political path and I wasn't interested in politics.

Speaker 2: 25:07

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:07

So you have just created the alternative to prison, in that the people who are finding new ways of being human beings with each other with themselves, they're probably discovering all kinds of things about themselves on the court with each other and the idea of then moving into their lives beyond the walls, or maybe even within the walls, in a whole new way how amazing is that.

Speaker 3: 25:39

Oh my gosh Roger. And it just keeps going. You know, right now a documentary is being made.

Speaker 1: 25:47

Oh good.

Speaker 3: 25:48

Pick a ball on the inside. Oh good, and the producer and the crew has been to me at different sites and we're really excited about that and there's going to be announcements about it next month or so. So that's one aspect of what's happening next and the other one is really exciting for me because people start reaching out to me and say you know, we admire so much of what you're doing and seeing how good it's doing. You know I'm in Florida and you know I have a prison down the road. I have no idea how to get things established. Would you be my mentor and help me introduce the game at this local prison?

Speaker 1: 26:30

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3: 26:31

And of course I said yes. And that started out, you know, with one person and all of a sudden we had about five or six and right now I'm mentoring about 35 people around the country.

Speaker 1: 26:43

Wow, that is so cool. In fact, you were an inspiration to someone who's local here, dan McGee, who we will be airing his episode in a few weeks after yours, and he started Pickleball in the juvenile detention center in King County because he heard about you.

Speaker 2: 27:04

Isn't that?

Speaker 3: 27:04

great for Dan, yes, and I like to say get them when they're young. So what he's doing is just tremendous, because if he can teach them the kind of the life lessons and that's what you guys are talking about- you can put them on the right track, because so many of us come to a fork in the road.

Speaker 1: 27:21

Yeah. Which side are we going to take? So, in all these experiences, roger, I mean my gosh, hmm. How has this impacted your life? What life lessons have you gleaned from this whole experience?

Speaker 3: 27:41

Well, you know, there's just so many, there's just so many that what I like to say is we all live in a bubble. You know we have our friends that think like we do, Otherwise they probably wouldn't be friends. And we talk back and forth in somewhat of an echo chamber and we have these judgments on what other people's lives are like. Yeah, and we have these judgments on what other?

Speaker 1: 28:00

people's lives are like.

Speaker 3: 28:02

Yeah, I've had the opportunity to be exposed to a completely different group of people, people that have many, many severe challenges in life. Yeah, and I've learned from the inside of what their life has been like.

Speaker 3: 28:20

And it's really given me a different perspective and there's so many simple examples, but I'll just share one with you is I was in I think it was in Florida and when I go, you know I bring the equipment, and there's a lot of things that need to be done. The course needs to be swept and equipment needs to be set up, and sometimes equipment needs to be moved, and so I'm barking out orders. I told you I like to tell people what to do.

Speaker 1: 28:50

And you're good at it, yeah.

Speaker 3: 28:53

And I said to this one guy I said, see if you can set up this net and, as you know, if you take a portable net, the second time you do it, it's a piece of cake, but the first time is what goes where, and this goes you know, it's a little bit challenging and so I'm busy doing other things.

Speaker 3: 29:09

I look back and he's got it set up and I look over and say that's great, you're a good man. He says to me. He says no, sir, my entire life I've been told just the opposite.

Speaker 1: 29:23

Oh, that's, so sad.

Speaker 3: 29:25

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:25

Oh, my, that's so sad.

Speaker 3: 29:27

So is it any surprise he's in prison, if you can imagine somebody going through life and they're told continually that they're bad, that they're wrong, that they're no good.

Speaker 4: 29:41

They fulfilled their prophecy, yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:43

Yeah, oh, my gosh, roger, oh man, we could talk with you all day long. I am just thrilled that a documentary is being filmed about this and it is an honor to know you, and how lovely that we all live in the same neighborhood. We're definitely on the cross paths with you. But, Roger, thank you for this work that you're doing that is transforming lives, People say. Many of our guests have said pickleball can change the world and Lord knows. That's exactly what's happening in the work you're doing.

Speaker 3: 30:22

Oh my gosh, Thank you Well, thank you, but you know, I'm just kind of the. I'm like Johnny Appleseed, I'm just spreading seeds out there. But the secret is the game, the way the game is put together and anybody that plays it understands it, because it builds community one whack at a time.

Speaker 1: 30:47

One whack at a time A whole new way of thinking of whacking yeah.

Speaker 4: 30:56

Oh wow, I understood the impact you were having on the prisoners but after listening to you, the impact on the prison system can also be huge. Yeah, and that's such a gift to the prisoners.

Speaker 3: 31:11

Yeah, well, it's happening, it's happening.

Speaker 4: 31:13

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 31:14

I kind of believe I gave the example about basketball earlier and I think it will happen. I can't tell you how fast it'll become the number one sport you know. And if we can make people better on the inside, 95% are going to be getting out. So when they come out it's going to be better for all of us. Amen, because today's inmate is going to be tomorrow's neighbor.

Speaker 4: 31:38

Yes, yes, that is a really good point and, like you said, if the warden and the guards are treating them respectfully and they're having fun times with them, that gives them hope for when they come out. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 31:52

Wow, and I'm going to use your words if we can change people's lives on the inside and that goes for us in life Pickleball changes us inside and we become better people, more friendly, more confident, and so inside ourselves, inside the prisons, inside oh my gosh, roger, okay, this happens a few times. I'm just going to have to weep after we say goodbye. So grateful to you for everything you're doing and really grateful that you've taken time to talk with us, because you are one very busy man.

Speaker 3: 32:36

Well, thank you, I've really enjoyed it.

Speaker 1: 32:38

Thank you, and I want to thank everyone who has been listening and watching. Oh my gosh, grab your tissues and if you know any prisons that need to be introduced to Pickleball, roger is your man.

Speaker 3: 32:53

So thank you all. Yeah, roger, can I get my email address? So people?

Speaker 1: 32:57

can reach out to me. Please do, yeah, yes.

Speaker 3: 33:00

It's real easy to remember. It's my last name with an extra R on the end, so it's B-E-L-A-I-R-R at Gmail.

Speaker 1: 33:09

Oh, okay, b-e-l-a-i-r-r at gmailcom. Yeah, thank you for that All right Okay. Be ready. Your inbox is going to fill up fast. Thank you all, thank you Roger. Bye-bye.

Speaker 2: 33:31

If you love our podcast, we'd be so grateful if you'd take a few seconds to follow or subscribe to Life Lessons from Pickleball. This ensures you'll never miss an episode and helps us continue these wonderful conversations.

Speaker 1: 33:39

On Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen, go to the show page and tap the follow button in the top right corner, and on YouTube, click the subscribe button under any of the episodes. Thanks so much. Hope to see you on the court.