SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Hi, I'm Shelley Maurer. And I'm Cher Emmerich. Welcome to Life Lessons from Pickleball, where we engage with pickleball players from around the world about life on and off the court. Thanks for joining us. Hi, everyone, and welcome to Life Lessons from Pickleball. Today, we are really thrilled to have as our guest, Dan McGee, who has been in pickleball world for almost 50 years. Dan, how in the world did you get involved in pickleball all the way back in 1975?

SPEAKER_03: 0:36

It was a total accident. I graduated from college with a teaching degree in physical education. I substituted for two years. And then I think it was about 1975, I I got my first full-time teaching job. And so I stopped by the office, got the keys to my gym and my office and everything, went down to check everything out. I was all excited. The gym was beautiful. It was an elementary school. The office was my own office all by myself. And I went into the equipment room and I looked in this big bin and And there were these wooden paddles, these thick, heavy wooden paddles. And I thought, what the heck are these? And fortunately, there was a little notebook in there with the paddles. And I read the notebook and it was pickleball. And I thought, what? And so I thought, well, you know, I got the equipment. I guess I should try it. So with my fourth, fifth and sixth graders, I taught a 15 day unit and the kids were crazy about it. They loved it. And so the next year I put some lines outside on the playground and put four paddles out there and the kids would race out there to grab the paddles. And of course, we changed the rules a little bit. You played to five. You didn't play to 11. It was a point every time the ball was put in play to get a rotation going. And That's where pickleball started with me. Interestingly enough, I played primarily all the way through my teaching career and retired 11 years ago, but I had never played pickleball, just taught it. What? Yes. I thought I'd try it. Once I tried it, I was hooked. That's where my experience with pickleball started and where we're headed for right now.

SPEAKER_01: 2:39

Well, so when was the first time you played?

SPEAKER_03: 2:41

11 years ago when I

SPEAKER_00: 2:43

retired. Come on. You taught for all those years and never played it, even though you saw everybody getting hooked on it, but you were so busy

SPEAKER_03: 2:54

teaching. I didn't see people getting hooked on it until a local community center. I don't know how I heard about pickleball at a local community center, but I asked a friend of mine who was a retired PE teacher if he'd be interested in trying it with me. And once we were there for... the first session, we were hooked, and it was so much fun. So yeah, that's where I started, and I've been teaching it ever since at different levels, elementary school, well, actually 11-year-olds to 14-year-olds, and senior citizens, of course, at community centers around the greater Seattle area, and then became interested in King County juvenile detention.

SPEAKER_00: 3:42

Okay, well, we've got a lot to unpack there. Because it sounds like you started with the young'uns. Yes. And your teaching, even in retirement, expands to the seniors and everyone in between. And you were a pioneer in getting this off the ground. And now you're playing as well. I mean, you kind of are the whole package here.

SPEAKER_03: 4:08

I retired from Ingram High School, which is a Seattle school. And I still didn't even play with the older kids that would have been more competitive with me. But yeah, 11 years ago. And fortunately, we have a association called the Seattle Metro Pickleball Association. They are fantastic. And that group is that association is growing exponentially. with leaps and bounds. It's gotten so big that they can collect money by doing these pickleball activities. And then with the money they collect, they put it back into pickleball and promote pickleball within the Seattle area. So they're a very valuable asset for the Seattle community.

SPEAKER_00: 5:01

Are they involved in building courts or they're just involved in promoting the sport?

SPEAKER_03: 5:07

Building courts, lining courts, not putting concrete down by any means, but combining tennis courts with pickleball courts. They're responsible for that. And also organizing pickleball leagues. The league that I played in recently had 120 people in the league.

SPEAKER_02: 5:29

My

SPEAKER_03: 5:30

goodness. So they're behind that 100%, taking care of that. So they do all kinds of things in the greater Seattle area promoting pickleball. And I just can't give them enough credit. They're wonderful.

SPEAKER_00: 5:44

And you're actually involved with them, right? What is your role with

SPEAKER_03: 5:47

them? I'm a member. And because of my background with physical education and teaching pickleball, they call on me often to connect with other resources. I've taught at something called Shape Washington, which is a conference for the state of Washington, PE teachers. I've taught locally within the Seattle School district for Seattle PE teachers. It's called West Best, and that's a conference for Seattle teachers. At those locations, it's not teaching pickleball. It's teaching teachers how to teach pickleball, and it's very different. They're not the same.

SPEAKER_00: 6:31

Why? Why would that be so different?

SPEAKER_03: 6:33

Because teaching teachers to teach pickleball, you've got to explain how you can get the equipment or the teachers can ask the district to put lines outside on their equipment. in their play areas or even in their parking lots. When I taught in the Kent School District, which is just outside of Seattle, we had eight courts put into the corner of our parking lot, and we could just put cones up to keep cars away from that corner. And eight courts, you know, that's 32 spots for 32 people, 32 kids at the junior high level. Wow. So we encourage people or teachers to do that. And then, of course, how you teach it. Ladder tournaments are a fantastic way of teaching pickleball because once the kids have played for a few days, the better teams, two people on a team, they move up the ladder. The teams that aren't as good move down. And once you're playing against opponents that are about the same level as you are, everybody has fun.

SPEAKER_02: 7:41

So true.

SPEAKER_03: 7:41

And rally scoring where players play games where there's a point scored every time the ball is put in play because there's time restraints on a PE class and you have to move it along in a hurry. So there's all kinds of different things that I can suggest to teachers when they teach pickleball that is totally different than teaching senior citizens how to play pickleball.

SPEAKER_01: 8:08

It sounds like you really have that dialed in after doing it for 40 years, right? Yeah. I mean, you're such a great resource.

SPEAKER_03: 8:17

After a few years, it becomes a little more natural and easier to do.

SPEAKER_00: 8:22

On behalf of all of us who are just kind of newbies to this sport, thank you so much for laying the groundwork like that. And the kids that you taught are now in their, what, 50s, 60s now? Were you the first kids you

SPEAKER_03: 8:37

taught? Let's see. Yeah, they're up there. Occasionally, a 50-year-old will walk by and go, Mr. McGee. And as soon as I hear the Mr. McGee, I know they had to be a student of mine in the past. We reminisce and it's fun to cross paths with them.

SPEAKER_00: 8:56

Well, Dan, my undergraduate degree was criminology. My intention was to design alternatives to prison to encourage healing and self-awareness and help people get back into society and be their best selves. But I found out it was a political track and I wasn't interested in politics, so I didn't pursue that ultimately. But I have a real heart for the fact that you do work with kids at the juvenile detention center in a County, right? So tell us about that.

SPEAKER_03: 9:30

Well, first of all, I want to give some credit. And unfortunately, I don't remember the gentleman's name, but I listened to a podcast one day, and it was a gentleman that lived very close to Seattle. He was asked to fly to, I think it was Ohio, and he was asked to teach pickleball at a federal penitentiary. And he talked about it and shared his his experience. And the whole time I was listening to it, I was thinking, you know, that's something I could do. And the logical place to apply for a job like that was the King County Juvenile Detention Center. So I talked to the person in charge of volunteers and I had to fill out some information and they did a background check and everything. And I got clearance. And so I was able to start teaching pickleball boys and girls that were under 18 years of age that were incarcerated for sometimes a longer length of time, sometimes very short length of time, depending on what offense they committed. And that's kind of how we got started with pickleball at King County.

SPEAKER_01: 10:46

Tell us about it. Like how, how was it received? How did it go? Like from the beginning?

SPEAKER_03: 10:51

Well, I have the equipment and I thought, well, you know, this is just going to be like any high school class I've ever taught. And with high school, of course, four steps of learning a physical skill, demonstration, imitation, correction, And repetition, repetition, repetition. That's how I teach a physical skill. So immediately I had the kids with pickleball paddles. And I said, okay, we're going to start hitting the ball against the wall. And this is how I want you to do it. And they're like, wait a minute. We ain't practicing. You want us to practice? No, we'll play the game. We ain't practicing. If you think we're going to practice, we're going back to our own units because we ain't doing it. So I said, okay. Okay, in that case, we'll use the nets. So they started playing a game and they had no idea what the rules were or anything else. All my students in high school would know the rules. They'd know the strategies. They'd know everything about it before they were allowed to step onto a court and play a real game, but not these kids. And so I was entertained because I would see these big rainbows going back and forth over the net. high rainbows back and forth over the net when anybody that understands strategy would be pounding the ball down at the other side, but the kids didn't understand. So some kid would figure it out and then the other kids would see the success and they would try to imitate what that kid was doing, whether it was a third shot drops or dinking or whatever. It took forever for them to figure it out. And the whole time I was thinking to myself, you know, When Pickleball was invented by Joel Pritchard, the Washington State Congressman, and two of his friends on Bainbridge Island in 1965, that must have been what they were going through, where they probably did the same thing. And then somebody figured out, no, it's better if you hit a line drive. And then, oh, okay, we're going to... And they, as time went on, perfected the sport in their backyard on the court they had at their summer cabin. And that's kind of the way the kids were doing. They were inventing the sport on their own without my help. The ones that have been there for a length have become pretty good players. In fact, I think I saw a couple of weeks ago, I saw a play by one of the boys that I think was the best pickleball play I've ever seen in pickleball, including watching professionals. And that was a short shot. He was back on the baseline. He ran forward and he dove head first and got his paddle underneath the ball and had enough force on the ball to lift it up back over the net and fall on the other side. But it was a head first dive. And of course, I had to give him a shoulder bump for that and tell them. I think that's the best play I've ever seen in pickleball. So

SPEAKER_01: 14:04

did they ever evolve to asking you any questions about the rules or did they just continue with?

SPEAKER_03: 14:10

No,

SPEAKER_01: 14:10

no.

SPEAKER_03: 14:11

And they want to argue about the rules all the time with me. So I made a copy of the rule and rules and I took them and put them on the wall in their units, each of each unit so they could look and read those rules. So hopefully they will stop arguing with me when I say the ball was out on the line or they stepped over the no volley line or stepped on the line and then they can, the two bounce rules, they don't understand. So they don't, they want to argue about that. So by putting it up on the wall in their unit, they can read it and know what the real rules are.

SPEAKER_01: 14:49

Do they have access to the stuff when you're not there or only on Mondays when you go?

SPEAKER_03: 14:54

Only Pickleball Mondays. And then I also have started recently a one-on-one counseling with the kids where I go into a unit and I invite a kid over and he and I, or she and I, because the girls are in there too, we talk about roadmaps and goal setting. But that's on Wednesdays. So that'll be today, as a matter of fact, after I leave here. But yeah, Monday only for Pickleball. from three o'clock to eight o'clock at night. So it's a long day.

SPEAKER_00: 15:30

Yeah, that's a long day. And I'm impressed with you, for sure, that you adapted. to the kids because you know how to teach and you know what's the best way to teach, but you adapted to their need. And that's very empowering for them to be able to have that ability to kind of follow their own rules, especially in an environment where they can't follow their own rules anywhere else. So good for you for that. But I'm also interested in your one-on-one counseling. Say more about that. What do you mean roadmaps?

SPEAKER_03: 16:06

Well, Pickleball has been a nice bridge to connecting with the kids. It's a very casual environment. None of them know my name. They all call me what I expect to be called, and that's Grandpa. So they call me Grandpa. Everyone calls me Grandpa. They don't know my real name. And so that's another way of building a relationship. You know, connect with grandpa. And so on the pickleball court and when kids aren't, it's not their turn to play. I interact with them. We give each other a bad time. They give me a bad time and fun. I give them a bad time. And so when I go into the classroom, the barriers have increased. been broken down a little bit. When they're in a group, for instance, at the beginning of the period, when I try to get their attention, and I quickly in a minute and a half, review the basic rules, because they won't last longer than a minute and a half. They sort of want to posture and put their shoulders back and like, come on, let's just play. What's going on? Come on. Come on. What's going on? But when you get them individually, they are completely different. And they are so nice and so polite and so interested. And we interact. And so they're there. They might think they're there to be punished, but they're I try to explain to them they're not there to be punished. They're there to learn and to change the behavior that they've been experiencing because look where they are. It's not working for them. And so we talk about a different roadmap, going a different direction. When they get out, finding other people to interact with and making up excuses like, oh, no, I can't go out with you guys Saturday. I'm supposed to... Yeah, I'm supposed to watch my little brother. That's it. I'm supposed to watch my little brother. And so come up with some excuses not to make mistakes with other kids and get back into King County juvenile detention and just go in a different direction. And also a goal set, because I get the feeling that the kids, when they're out and about, they don't think any further than this weekend. You know, it's like. something up blocking their view to the future. And it's like, so what are we going to do this weekend? You know, are we going to maybe steal a car or, you know, what are we going to do? Back a car into a store and run in and grab things out of the store? Things that kids have a tendency to do to get into King County. So they need to look beyond that and so i ask them questions some of them are visual learners so i draw it on a piece of paper and i say okay here's here's where you were born here's uh kindergarten and now you're up to and you know here you are before you went out of school here and then what do you think your plan is um for when you're 28 years old you know what do you think you're going to be how about 35 How about 45? And so the kids will think about what they should be thinking about. What are you interested in? Is there any job that you would think about? And my job is always, the one thing I always recommend to them, possibly working for the Washington State ferry system. Yeah. The Seattle area, we have many ferries that connect islands around the Seattle area. And so there's a lot of ferries out there and a lot of workers. You can get a job parking cars on a ferry, but in Seattle, Eventually, you will be eligible to be a ferry boat captain and ferry boat captains make a lot of money. So you just need to get your whatever you've done. If you can get it expunged so you don't have that record, let's shoot for something like that. And then maybe a couple of kids, you'll be the soccer coach for your little boy and your wife will be happy with you and you'll have a house. And, you know, think about that kind of thing. Not just what you're up to this week. and who you're going to hang out with and what mistakes you might be thinking about making. So that's kind of the roadmap and goal setting. Those are the two things I try to push.

SPEAKER_01: 20:42

Wow, the kids are so lucky to have you to do that with them. They really are. And I heard you say, so the one thing that Pickleball did is it helped break the bridge so you could have these amazing conversations with the kids. What are some other ways you've seen Pickleball help these kids? It's

SPEAKER_03: 21:00

a distraction. for them. It's an hour a week where they are goofing, they're laughing, they're giving each other a bad time in a friendly way and making a fantastic play. And I always give shoulder bumps to anybody off the ground, to anybody that makes a great play to recognize that play they just did. And they just have a lot of fun. It's a time where they can enjoy and not think about what their parents are thinking about or usually what their mother is thinking about, what's going to happen next week when they have to go back to court, what the kids or their teachers are thinking about them. All these negatives in their lives that are right there and can be a source of serious depression, we give them an hour to that they can throw that. And I tell them that. I said, this is an hour where you don't have to worry about things. You can just get out there and have a good time. And so most of them buy into that and they're just having a great time until they line up at the wall and head back to their unit.

SPEAKER_00: 22:11

Shelly's a teacher as well and actually started her own school here in Kirkland area. And so I see so much similarity between the two of you and when you talk about kids and teaching and the heart you bring to it. And it's actually rather touching. It's really touching. And when you said, well, what will you be doing when you're 28 or something like that? Wow. How many kids even think have that question posed to them. And you've already established this wonderful, loving, supportive relationship. And so you have this in to these kids to explore alternatives for their lives. That's just very sweet.

SPEAKER_03: 22:57

Well, and I don't want you to think for a moment that I'm not benefiting from this experience because I am. I look forward to it. I enjoy those kids. They're so much fun. Even though it's not a regular physical education class, I do have good classroom management skills, and I know how to get kids to a point where they say yes instead of no. And one boy was constantly conflicting with everything I was trying to do. And the more I would... stop him and not allow him to participate in certain situations, he would become more obstinate. I pass out individual servings of chips, the little bags of chips.

SPEAKER_02: 23:47

The kids

SPEAKER_03: 23:47

would And on their heads for a bag of chips, especially the hot, spicy ones. And I was asking them out to the kids who participated before they left. And he walked over and they're in a big box. And he smashed that box down to the ground and knocked all the chips, all the bags out. And without blinking an eye, I just bent down and started picking them up. And I continued talking to the other kids. And so the week went by. They left. The week went by. And I was there as a chaplain is what I'm called. I was there not as a pickleball instructor, but as a chaplain in the unit. And he came up to me from behind and said, Grandpa, I'm really sorry.

SPEAKER_00: 24:38

Oh. Oh. Wow.

UNKNOWN: 24:41

Wow.

SPEAKER_03: 24:50

I didn't think there was any hope for that kid. And for him to say that.

SPEAKER_01: 24:57

Well, you know what you did that was so special is he's used to being the bad guy and he was just fulfilling his prophecy and you didn't call him out for that. And that was amazing. That meant so much to him.

SPEAKER_03: 25:11

But he said it in private. He didn't say it in front of the other kids. That doesn't surprise me at all. But he said it to me in private. In a very sincere way. And that was so moving that that kid, I'm not giving up on that kid. And I told them, I said, I am so proud of you for saying that to me. I am so proud. I can't. I can't tell you how proud I am of you. And he could see I was tearing up a little bit. And so his attitude has changed and he's doing so much better. That was only maybe three weeks ago. So I've seen him a couple of times since. And I'm just so happy that there's hope and that he can make a difference. He's one kid who's been in there. I've been doing this for over two years now. And he's been there for... I can't say exactly, but I think it's close to the same amount of time.

UNKNOWN: 26:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_03: 26:13

So when they turn 18 at midnight, they're taken out. If they're in there for a serious crime, they're taken out and moved to an adult correctional institute on their 18th birthday. So he's getting close to 18 now. But I think he's been in for probably a couple years. So anyway, I'm so happy for him that he's seeing the light.

SPEAKER_00: 26:41

You may have just turned the corner for him. I mean, he was headed down a road that was a no, no good ending road. And for him to experience clearly that sense of acceptance from you, that he recognized that he was not expressing the same kindness and caring back and that touched his heart. I mean, wow, that's just so wonderful, Dan. Thank you for doing that. Two years doing this. That's, Really remarkable. It doesn't seem

SPEAKER_03: 27:15

like three years. It's gone really fast. I

SPEAKER_00: 27:18

bet. Well, you've got Shelly and me using our tissues. Oh, my gosh. That's so touching.

SPEAKER_03: 27:25

I have a couple of props here I was going to share

SPEAKER_02: 27:28

with

SPEAKER_03: 27:28

you. Oh, we'd love your props. Well, here's the deal. The kids will... can be destructive at times, not because they want to be just because they are. And so they can take a paddle and bang it on the ground a little bit or bang it against the wall, or they'll flip it up like a juggling pin and catch it. And probably eight out of 10 times they catch it. Other than that, they hit the ground. So when I see that, I have to walk up to them with these and I have to say, okay, I got to take your paddle. This is your new paddle. You

SPEAKER_00: 28:02

need to describe because a lot of people are just listening. They won't see the video.

SPEAKER_03: 28:06

And it's got a hole in the middle. You're going to be able to hit a pickleball with this little thing. And then the other one is a pickleball paddle, but it's made of foam. So to try to hit a pickleball with soft foam. And they're going, come on, Grandpa, how could I? How can I get a ball with that? I go, well, you can't be using grandpa's paddles because that costs grandpa a lot of money to replace those paddles. Grandpa can't afford that money. Can't afford buying those new paddles. So, okay, grandpa, I'll be careful with my paddle. I'll be, okay, don't forget. And so I take them back and the kid does this paddle around. He's a little more careful with how he's handling that paddle. So anyway, just a way to have some fun with the kid. That

SPEAKER_01: 28:57

is. And you know, you showed us earlier, show us, tell us what's on your shirt that you wear when you go. I love that.

SPEAKER_03: 29:04

This was a fantastic thrift store find. I found it before King County Juvenile. But when I started at King County, I thought this is perfect. And the shirt says, you are not alone. And so when I interact with people, Kids, I usually have like a warm up jacket or something on. But when I'm interacting with the kid and I have them over to the side and I'm telling them, you know, you can do better than what you're doing. You don't have to behave like that. You should show the security people more respect, that kind of thing. And they're not having it really. I can go, listen, you got me on your side, man. I know what's best for you. You're not alone. Oh, that's

SPEAKER_01: 29:50

awesome.

UNKNOWN: 29:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 29:51

That is so awesome. You know, I can just tell after this conversation, I'm going to cry, that all the kids are so lucky to have had you. You really are a special heart.

SPEAKER_03: 30:01

Thank you. And we're expanding a little bit. Recently, I've been working with... Union Gospel Mission Search and Rescue, where we go out at night and find people that are in need. And we have supplies like water, sandwiches and blankets and clothes. I've been doing that for like over seven years. But they also have something which is a men's recovery center for people who are off the street who have addiction issues and alcohol issues and they take them in for like a year and a half and they get cleaned up and then they help them find a job and they help them find a place to live and they push them out the door a little bit, and hopefully they're ready to be on their own. I asked if I could teach pickleball to these guys, and they said yes. And so I'm going to be helping those guys develop the same positive addiction, let the negative addictions go, but develop a positive addiction, which is called pickleball. So I always tell people, generally speaking, people, you're either one of two types of people. You're the type of person who has tried pickleball and loved it and become addicted to it. Or you're the other type of person, somebody who's never tried pickleball

SPEAKER_02: 31:36

before.

SPEAKER_03: 31:37

Those are the two types of people in this world.

SPEAKER_00: 31:40

Oh my gosh, Dan, you have moved us to our core. So in all these experiences you've had, what are some of the life lessons that you have gathered?

SPEAKER_03: 31:59

I don't know if I would describe it as a life lesson, but a change of life. In other words, I can go to any area that has pickles and those people show up. They have made friends with other pickleball players. They know all kinds of things about those pickleball players, all about their lives and everything. They laugh. They have such a good time. But it's all about the pickleball courts. Occasionally, you'll make a friend that you do other things with away from pickleball. But what pickleball has done for so many people has drawn them, especially seniors, drawn them out of their solitary life. confinement, so to speak, into a social atmosphere where there is laughing and silly behavior and goofy things. And it's just so uplifting for people. In fact, my hat here, I brought it to show you. It says Pickleball Social Club. And that's basically what it is. When I go to play pickleball, it's a social club. It is.

SPEAKER_00: 33:07

And you used the word, I loved it, the bridge. It's a bridge to so many things. It's a bridge to healing. Gosh, it gets me every time. It's a bridge to healing. It's a bridge to friendship. It's a bridge to empowerment, joy, community. Wow. And you certainly are demonstrating that in such a big way in your life, Dan.

SPEAKER_03: 33:32

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 33:34

Shelly and I were just... As soon as we hang up, you know we're just going to boo-hoo. But thank you, thank you, thank you for being on the show with us today, Dan. But even more so, thank you for how you have lived your life to make life better for everyone else around you. Bless your heart.

SPEAKER_03: 33:55

Well, I'm encouraging everybody to get out on those pickleball courts because not only is it going to extend your life, it's going to make your life so much happier. Amen.

SPEAKER_00: 34:09

Amen. Well, thank you, Dan, and thank you all. Thank you all for, oh, I know how much you've enjoyed this episode. Thank you for listening, for watching, and we look forward to our conversation next week. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_01: 34:25

If you love our podcast, we'd be so grateful if you'd take a few seconds to follow or subscribe to Life Lessons from Pickleball. This ensures you'll never miss an episode and helps us continue these wonderful conversations.

SPEAKER_00: 34:39

On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, go to the show page and tap the follow button in the top right corner. And on YouTube, click the subscribe button under any of the episodes. Thanks so much. Hope to see you on the court.

UNKNOWN: 34:54

you