SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Hi, I'm Shelly Maurer. And I'm Cher Emrick. Welcome to Life Lessons from Pickleball, where we engage with pickleball players from around the world about life on and off the court. Thanks for joining us. Welcome, everyone, to Life Lessons from Pickleball. It's so great to have you with us, and we feel really lucky to have with us Akash Agarwal as our guest today. Akash, it's so great to have you here. And we've learned so much about you. One thing we've learned is that you have over 25 years of experience in the enterprise software space, and you hold an MBA from the Harvard Business School. And as an expert in the go-to market foundation of companies, you've worked with five startups, and two of which were founded by you.

SPEAKER_01: 0:51

You've lived and worked on three continents, which has certainly given you a global perspective. And now you describe yourself as a tennis addict, and a pickleball junkie, coaching pickleball with the Teach Me Too platform in San Francisco, California. So tell us, how were you first introduced to pickleball and what was going on in your life at the time? It

SPEAKER_02: 1:13

was a good time in my life. Like, every time is a good time when I reflect back. So I remember it well. And, you know, if we had the picture, it's on my Zoom background. It stimulates conversation. And it reminds me of that wonderful time. It was right after the U.S. Open finished in 2018. And there were some courts near my house. And I have a son who is 10x more athletic than I am. And I don't know how we heard about this game called Pickleball in 2018 in October. No, not October, actually September, because it was the final week of the U.S. Open. We asked around and we found these courts near our house in the city called Foster City. There were six courts there and my son and I showed up. We saw a couple of people playing. They were kind enough to lend us their paddles. Next thing we did was we bought paddles and started playing. So my son and I like to kind of bounce the ball in the house. So we had this sort of plastic beach ball they give you at conferences, you know, that really thin plastic sort of beach ball that actually is too light to be playing with in a beach because it's so light. But inside the homes, it doesn't break things and you can play kind of like tennis with it, right, in the house. So we like to do that. And when we saw this game, pickleball, we really didn't know what was going on. And, you know, we got the paddles and started playing. We started playing singles and singles. I remember that we weren't quite clear of the ball needs to bounce first in the kitchen or before you receive it, you have to let it bounce on one end and things like that. So we weren't fully aware of some of the rules as we started. And we played singles mostly in 2018 and 2019 during the pandemic and 20 as well. So 18, 19, 20, 18, I introduced it. 20, I played a little bit because I was very busy traveling to Boston for my work. And 2020, we played a lot because the pandemic hit and we were able to go to those same courts. And then towards the later half of 21 or the beginning of 21, I started discovering the game that it's really the biggest fun comes out of when you play doubles. And if I look back at my strategy for playing the game in 2020, it was wrong. And, you know, it's probably wrong still, but I've learned a lot about it. So that's kind of where we are. And, you know, my hat says Dink. I put this hat on for this thing. It says Dink if you can read it. You know, I also protect my balding hair as well. So that's kind of the pickleball journey. And, you know, tennis is my first love. Pickleball is my second, I say, and, you know, I love them equally. I would play them, you know, given the chance, anytime, every time.

SPEAKER_00: 4:27

Anytime, anywhere, right? And with anyone.

UNKNOWN: 4:32

And with anyone.

SPEAKER_00: 4:33

Yeah,

SPEAKER_02: 4:35

the thing about pickleball is tennis, I would not play with anyone because I'd say a lot of people wouldn't want to play with me because, you know, their games may be better than mine. And I also don't want to play with other people tennis just like that because they may not be able to get the ball back at my level. So tennis, I think one of the big differences I've found is, at least for me, I want to play tennis with people within the zone. Maybe they're 50% better than 20%, but I don't want to play anyone that's not as good as I am because it's just not a good use of their time or mine. Pickleball, on the other hand, You can do a little bit of a dinking with someone. I can create a little workout by halving the court. And most certainly, I'll play doubles with anyone, including beginners. And yeah, I mean, look, I go and play pickup pickleball all the time. What I find is, you know, some times are more challenging than others. But, you know, I have fun.

SPEAKER_00: 5:36

I love that you do that, Akash. That's really cool that you'll play with anyone. So I was interested that you said you played singles with your son. And then when you started playing doubles, you realized what a different game it was and the strategy and all that. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_02: 5:51

Well, I think, you know, one, the social factor is different. And, you know, doubles is a really, I don't play doubles tennis. So I have saved that for later on in my life. So I didn't really know the joy of playing doubles. doubles tennis so I didn't really have anything to compare it with so I went in playing doubles this sport that most racket sports at least as I played a lot of squash I played badminton I come from the commonwealth so the British taught us all these things the other thing I like about pickleball is the British have nothing to do with it so and you know we can say this sport invented by Americans for Americans but you know the whole world is open so I got into it with doubles. And as I started to realize, you know, everybody gets an equal chance. Everybody serves. Both the players are needed. You can't play singles in doubles. And, you know, power doesn't, you can't overpower someone just by sheer power. So there's a lot of strategy. It's a chess game. I tell myself, I tell everyone I coach, everyone I play with when, you know, to use your mind as much as your hands and your body and everything, because it's how you play the game. And some people make the counter argument and say tennis is the same, but tennis actually has, if you're physically really good, you can overpower someone without any strategy in tennis.

SPEAKER_00: 7:22

That's actually true, right? Yeah, I agree with you on that, but not so much with pickleball. Yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_02: 7:28

I mean, look, being strong and being athletic is an advantage in any sport. It's just like in life, Being wise, being smart, you know, is plus. Can you survive without it? Yeah, I think you can in pickleball as well, you know, without having those tools.

SPEAKER_00: 7:48

When we start out, we're usually hitting it. We call it baby tennis. It's just hitting it hard, back and forth, back and forth. And then the better we get, we learn better. how to dink. And we learned how to get the dink back. And we learned the strategies and the shots, special shots. Yeah, that's very cool. Yeah, I'm a big tennis fan too, but pickleball is definitely my passion.

SPEAKER_01: 8:13

How did you get into coaching then?

SPEAKER_02: 8:15

Well, I got approached because I've been playing the game fairly early. I got approached by Teach Me, And they said that we heard you're a good player. And, you know, we've got this platform where, you know, you have to go through some certification, et cetera, and you can become a coach. And, you know, we make it easy for you. We help you get people who want to learn. And, you know, why don't you give it a shot? And, you know, until that point, I wasn't really... thinking about teaching anything really for that matter. You know, I don't think I have the wisdom yet to teach anyone anything. I tried teaching my kids and I failed miserably. And,

SPEAKER_00: 8:58

you

SPEAKER_02: 9:01

know, as my dad pointed out to me, which, you know, I kind of neglected at that time, he said that at least the school that my kids went to, he said, there's not a single parent in this school that couldn't teach. This was when they were in elementary school and sort of middle school. And he said, There's not a single parent in this community or in this school that your kids go to that couldn't teach everything that these kids are learning. However, he then cautioned me and he said, that's because kids don't want to learn from parents and parents are not good teachers, et cetera. So that kind of stuck with me. And when this company approached me, they said, we'll make everything easy for you. Why don't you give it a shot? So I said, let me do a few lessons. And, you know, before I go, I do a lot of homework. As you know, I called you up as well this afternoon. So I did some research, you know, what would a lesson look like? What would I need to teach people? You know, and I have a tennis coach as well. I've had a tennis coach for 15 years. So I talked to him and he gave me some ideas about, you know, how to, you know, he teaches kids. He teaches kids tennis at a middle school. And most of the kids that he teaches are not sort of gifted in sports. They're sort of doing sports because they have to check mark the school curriculum. So anyhow, he gave me some ideas. My son was teaching tennis to kids younger than him. So, you know, I had helped him draft a kind of a plan for what to do within the hour and stuff like that. So it made me do work. When something, when I find that anything where I do work, I enjoy, and initially it looks like friction and hard work, but actually the act of doing work and not taking on a challenge is something that I like, and it forced me to think about it, and then I gave a few lessons, and then I saw the joy in people's faces. I saw the joy in the reviews they wrote, and they sent me a little bit of money. Some sent me money and tips. And it just kind of went on from there. And now I average three to four lessons. My inbox is flooded with people wanting lessons I can't do anymore. And what I've done is it's forced me to really think about the game. So I have a real coach for pickleball myself. I'm a student primarily, actually. I go and play with people that are, you know, many times better than I am. I'm humbled that they allow me. So I allow people that are not as good as me because I get it back from them. And I have an online coach. His name is Tanner Tomasi. He's an amazing guy. If you're not following him, follow him.

SPEAKER_04: 11:49

Yeah. Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_02: 11:52

And so I follow him online. I follow a couple of other pickleball sort of outlets. And then Jeff Sherman, who's my great friend, who's my tennis coach, he's teaching me pickleball as well. And I'm studying and reading it as well. So for me, it's a lifelong learning. I learn as much as I do, and I actually spend more time learning than actually playing. Those

SPEAKER_00: 12:19

are the best teachers. The ones who are good students are the best. Yeah, and

SPEAKER_02: 12:22

I'm fortunate because the sport is vogue. There's a lot more people wanting to come in. And I know this train will stop like every train in life. And I'll have to find another one to catch. So and there may not be another one. So but, you know, I'll take it, take the train that I've got. So that's that's it. That's in a sort of abridged version of what's going on.

SPEAKER_00: 12:46

That's very cool. And now say the name of the platform.

SPEAKER_02: 12:50

Teachme.to means teach me to. And they started off, believe it or not, with pickleball. And their whole point is to teach people anything. It could be cooking. It could be piano. It could be pickleball, tennis, golf. You know, the founder is a Stanford MBA. I met him and went for a walk with him before I signed up on that platform to see what was going on. He has big vision. And, uh, He said that during COVID, he was stuck in the Marina District in San Francisco, and he saw all these people kite surfing. And he said, I could surf, but I didn't know how to kite surf, so I tried to find someone who could teach me kite surfing. And he said it wasn't easy. Either I had to go to some high-end person that had all these sort of constraints. I just wanted to get someone who could kind of get me going. And that kind of inspired this guy to... create this company called teachme.to. It's the number one teaching platform for pickleball in the country. You can Google it in any local. Look, if you type in pickleball and lessons, teachme.to will come up, not just in my zip code. It will hopefully be in every zip code in the United States.

SPEAKER_00: 14:07

That is fantastic. Good to know.

SPEAKER_02: 14:09

Yeah, they're making millions of dollars in revenue. And it's a classic Silicon Valley startup. I'm a Silicon Valley type of guy. I like people who think different, and that's kind of how it got going. I'm not on any other platforms. Lots of people within my friend network come to me, and I oblige them with mostly free lessons. And it's good that they typically come with their girlfriend, boyfriend, girlfriend, friend and, you know, it's fun. And I encourage them, you know, go out and play as much as you can. I can teach you the basics, but, you know, you can't learn more than by not playing. So go out and play.

SPEAKER_00: 14:56

Brilliant. Brilliant. That's brilliant. You have written a really terrific article called What Can Pickleball Teach You About Life? So, Akash, what has pickleball taught you about life and what are some of the life lessons that you've gleaned?

SPEAKER_02: 15:13

You know, I think it's, you know, during that time, I was just reflecting, I think, you know, some of the lessons that I pointed out in that article are germane to, I think, a lot of sports. I think, you know, the obvious ones are resilience, competitiveness, hard work, you always lose. But, you know, I think pickleball is unique because where I think I find it to be very different, at least in the environments that I play in, I play pickleball in sort of community areas. So what that means, at least in our area, I played in the great city of Palo Alto. It's the sort of birthplace of Silicon Valley. And Palo Alto has a very good community in a place called Mitchell Park. There are about 14, 15 courts. And you meet people from all walks of life. And you basically put your paddle down and you start playing. Now, you can come with a friend and both of you can play together. or you can play with other people. So one thing I really like about pickleball is you just show up and then you can start playing with anyone. And there's a lot of gaps in the game because what's happening in Palo Alto is the demand for pickleball is far greater than the supply of courts. So in what ends up happening, which I don't like, but it has a benefit. Everything has sort of a benefit. And the benefit is this waiting around while you're getting on the court, you tend to talk with people whom you're going to be playing with or who are sitting next to the court. And that allows you to just share a moment with them about their lives, what they do. And, you know, I've made, you know, N number of friends. If you see my phone, it's full of people with their first names and their second names being Pickleball, Akash Pickleball, Andy Pickleball,

SPEAKER_04: 16:55

Joe

SPEAKER_02: 16:56

Pickleball. So I don't know what their surnames are, but I kind of know a little bit about them. And, you know, and they're from all walks of life. Walks of life, I wouldn't know. A lot of them are illegal immigrants. A lot of them don't speak English as a first language. A lot of them are in their 70s, 80s. A lot of them are high school kids. There's three kids that come there who go to Palo Alto High. So, you know, they're good kids. They like pickleball. They don't have pickleball in high school. So they come here. They play with old dogs like me. And so it's fun. You know, you can find out which one of the kids is going to college. Then you see couples coming in. Then there's someone that comes in. There's a lady that comes in with her two sons, sometimes with the son, sometimes with the daughter. It's all gamuts of life. And people are there for the whole day. People are there like me for a few hours. So it's a great way to meet people from all walks of life. So once you encounter people from all walks of life, you start to kind of understand their lives and what's going on. So you learn a lot of things just by listening, just by playing. And it's a great game. If you don't want to play with someone that's not your level, you can shift to another court. You don't have to plan it. There's no hang-ups. People show up with a pair of shorts, a t-shirt, and get going. Tennis, on the other hand, even though it's my first love, has some sort of things associated with it that it's for the rich, it's for the famous. you know, and, you know, all sorts of stuff, celebrities, you know, with the US Open, all that, all that was focused was, oh yeah, Taylor Swift was there and, you know, okay, all right, Taylor Swift was there, fine, okay, great news, she doesn't care for tennis but she wanted to be seen, I understand.

SPEAKER_04: 18:47

She's

SPEAKER_02: 18:48

on, and I think she was doing pickleball as well but, Whether she'll come to Palo Alto Pickleball Courts is another matter. But the day she does, then I'll know that she's not just there for celebrity status. So that's why I like pickleball. So all the lessons associated with meeting normal people, doing normal things is great. For some people, it's a way they're using their retirement time. For other people, it's for they were not able to play sports or tennis they can't play. So all the lessons around life come to bear. But the primary thing is that it's disarming, it's easy, it's fun, and it brings joy to people's lives. And if you can be part of that joyous moment, it's good. And you crack jokes. I mean, my modus operandi is I'm pretty intense. I analyze old shots and figure out what went wrong, what went right. For some people, they don't like me. They don't like this part of me. So it's fine. They can move on. Others love it. In fact, people come to me, you should play tournaments. I know exactly the guy you can play with. He's missing what you have, which is the intensity. So it's fun. I've got a couple of Tongan friends. They don't speak much English, but we're good friends. I bring my music. I'm also known as the guy who brings the music. I have a speaker. I hang the speaker on the net. And I've got music blaring over there. And there's a couple of people who are stuck up. They said, we don't want music. I said, we won't play with you. I've got another court where they do want music. And my playlist is a cross-section of music. Clearly, it's music I like, but I think people find one or two songs in that playlist that they like. So that's how it goes.

SPEAKER_00: 20:42

I love it. You can't do any of

SPEAKER_02: 20:44

these things in a tennis club. You can't.

SPEAKER_01: 20:49

The one thing that you said in that article that stuck out to me is you said, overall, a spirit of togetherness and respect hovers over the game. Which is a great thing to learn if you want to build and foster long-lasting relationships in life. Oh, yeah. And really, those are what are the most important thing in life, is our long-lasting relationships.

SPEAKER_02: 21:08

Yeah, and I've made a lot of friends. I've made a lot of friends. COVID, we played three days a week. And, you know, those friends, those people I still keep in touch with. And, you know, it's good. And it's brought a lot of people together. I think I see lots of... girlfriends, boyfriends play. You know, I played a lot with my son, but my son is at a different level. I mean, you could go pro tomorrow if you wanted to. So he didn't play as much as I'd like to have played with him this summer, but he's got his own group of friends. They played, he's addicted to it. You know, he's a college level tennis player, but his college coach doesn't know he played pickleball in the

SPEAKER_04: 21:49

summer.

SPEAKER_02: 21:51

And I hope he doesn't listen to this podcast and kind of joins his surname with mine. But I think that would be a stretch if he did. So he puts a pickleball paddle away while he's in college. But when he comes back home, you know, it's addictive. So we, you know, some tennis, you know, people sort of are resisting it. You can't resist them. It's a movement. And it's a positive movement for society. So, you know, I can't get in the way of it or anybody else for that matter.

SPEAKER_00: 22:26

I love that. One of the things you mentioned in your article as well is adaptability and flexibility. Say more about that. The pickleball teaches us those qualities.

SPEAKER_02: 22:36

Yeah, I mean, basically it does because, you know, you'll get paired with someone who's not very good. Now, they're not trying to deliberately be bad. They're trying to learn. And, you know, most people are smart enough to realize that, you know, in Palo Alto, there are 14 courts. So it's understood, it's sort of self-understood that the courts are on one side are, you know, for players that are higher level and they've got certain quotes written on their courts for beginners or courts for people with no partners and things like that. Some people don't know that and it becomes very obvious to them that, you know, if they're mismatched, they should change that. And if not, you just work with it. You know, you work with it. You focus on your own game and they focus on their game and they'll learn. So you adapt from that perspective. And, you know, there's two hours of sessions I come back. I've only played three or four games or five games, four games because I had to wait around. It was busy. And I've lost all of the games. And I say, well, how much of that? that loss can be attributed to myself or that. But when you're a team, you win as a team, you lose as a team. So you go home and you put that down as a plus because you got the chance to play. There are so many people who are not as fortunate as I am physically, mentally, socially, whatever, financially, that can't do that. So you learn to kind of accept things as they are. And the culture is all about... Everyone plays. You put the paddle down. If there are four paddles waiting, all four of you go. If there are three paddles left, one of the winners has to leave. If there's two left, the two go. That's what, there's another example of adaptability. So that's the culture in Palo Alto. You know, it's not perfect, but it tends to work really well. And I like it. They run tournaments. They bring the community together, old, young. you know, you'd never see, you know, old and young people playing tennis together. You know, it's either all old people or, you know, you don't see John McEnroe playing with Yannick Sinner. You know, John McEnroe would like to play with Yannick Sinner, but I'm not sure Yannick Sinner wants to play with him. Now, for a million dollars, he might do it.

SPEAKER_00: 24:47

Maybe for a million. Yeah, he's not going to do it

SPEAKER_02: 24:49

for love. I mean, you know, that's what Andre Agassi is doing, by the way. Andre Agassi suddenly woken up and said, you know, I'm too old to play tennis, but I'm very young to play pickleball. He's left. That's what he said. Yeah, he's going to write a book and he's going to say, you know, I'm too young. I'm the perfect age to play pickleball. And, you know, he's endorsing... the PPA and other leagues and things like that. Good for him. He's got star power and he can do that. So it's all good. That's why I think it's the adaptability aspects come from it. And you have to kind of realize you have to play with all walks of life. I play with some people who don't know how to speak English and it's pretty obvious to them what needs to be done because we're playing together. They understand the rules. So we're able to find a common ground of having fun, which is the number one thing. And second, just to keep the game going. And we don't have any tension in this sport either. I find, you know, sometimes some line calls here and there and we let go. If the ball hits on the other side and someone calls it out, my view is that, you know, if they're persisting in calling them out, then you call them out and replay the point. And otherwise, there's really no tension. There's no lets. And, you know, it's... It's an amazing game. I think the British, we've beaten the British now in coming up with court-based, I mean squash, badminton, all the tennis. Every sport I look around, oh, the British had something to do with it. But this one, they don't. This one's hard. As a former colonist, that's why I take great pride in mentioning that.

SPEAKER_00: 26:27

I love that. No offense

SPEAKER_02: 26:29

to my British friends. I lived in England. I'm educated there. You can look at my background. I went to an English university. And India had a significant influence there as well.

SPEAKER_00: 26:42

Big time. Yeah, big time. Another thing you mentioned in the article is the mood we bring on the court affects not only us, but everyone around us, which feels like a real good life lesson too. Say more about that.

SPEAKER_02: 26:59

Yeah, but as I'm learning more and I think, you know, The great Elon Musk has mentioned this. He said that racquet sports help you live longer. And I think it's because you can't bring a bad mood onto a pickleball court. I'll tell you why. Even if you tried to, your game would just fall apart. Because you have to keep focus. Even if you're a really bad player, you can't bring that. So in some ways, your mood is always kind of going to be good now if it's not good it will get good because you will forget whatever problem you have and if you didn't have a problem then it'll just get better so that's kind of how I look at it because you know I'll give you an example I was playing tennis this weekend and there was a there was a period of where my game really went bad and I went bad because I started thinking about some work challenges I had and then I realized And what my tennis coach, Jeff, said, he said, Akash, he said, what happened to your game? I said, well, I started to have some thoughts about my work. He said, you're not going to be able to change them now. So you might as well focus on the game. And, you know, similar things happen in pickleball. I think that game happens so fast.

SPEAKER_04: 28:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 28:15

You know, it's happening at a fast pace. These reflexes that you need and you're standing at this kitchen, the balls come in so quickly at you. You can't really let your mind wander. So I think, That's kind of a benefit, at least from my point of view, that you can kind of sort of forget a few of your worries when you're on the court. And after you've exercised, you've already done yourself a favor by releasing indortions and all that. So your positivity sort of factor goes up. So you'll be able to confront whatever was worrying you with a little bit more positivity than you started.

SPEAKER_00: 28:56

Brilliant. Brilliant. It's like keeping in mind, what do we have control over? So if we're on the pickleball court and we're thinking about something with business, which I was doing today, I had no control over that business at that moment. What I had control over was paying attention to the ball and all that. So, yeah, good life lesson there.

SPEAKER_02: 29:15

Yeah, it's absolutely true. And, you know, I'm sure Athletes who play other sports will mention that. I can only talk about, I mean, I'm playing actively tennis and that. Now, running, on the other hand, is slightly different. So when you're running, actually, you can think about your things. And, you know, I read about Mark Zuckerberg. Mark Zuckerberg became a prolific runner. And he said that he stopped running, not because he wasn't getting the benefits of the physical benefits of running, but he said what happened was he would run with all his problems. and all the challenges. So he switched to jiu-jitsu or something, which was, again, a high-intensity type sport where you have to constantly be thinking about your moves. And he said one of the big benefits, in addition to the N number of benefits you get by doing jiu-jitsu, was that his mind had to shift its focus from wandering to doing that exercise. So pickleball is sort of the... the poster child of that example, right?

SPEAKER_00: 30:22

That is such a good point. Such a good point. So you're a visionary, Akash. You've done all this. You're an entrepreneur, a visionary. What do you see as the future for pickleball?

SPEAKER_02: 30:34

No, I'm not. I mean, the visionaries are the people who came up with the game. They envisioned a game that would become viral. You know, I think, look, I think the game will become viral And I'll tell you the story. I got approached by, it's on my social media, this post, actually. I was inspired by this. So, you know, Egyptian gentleman called me up last week and he said, you know, on this platform, he said, I want you to coach my son. I said, yeah, what are the goals with this son? And he said, he's 12 years old and I envision, and, you know, this is as far as my vision goes. It's someone else's vision, really. So he said, I envision this becoming a college sport. And I want my son to become an NCAA pickleball player. I said, okay. You know, I said, why stop at NCAA? Why shouldn't he become pro? He said, absolutely right. My goal is for him to become a pro after NCAA. I said, okay, fantastic goal. What can I do to help? He said, well, we've had a couple of coaches. It hasn't worked out. I want you to do this double-handed this and this and that and the other. And I said, well, okay, that's understandable. Let me see what I can do. So, you know, I don't do double-handed backhand because I learned single-handed backhand. So, you know, I said, holy smoke, this, not only have I got to teach this kid, but his dad's going to be sitting around videoing every move that I do. So I said, fine, we'll do it. And he said, I've signed up six lessons. I said, I wouldn't sign up six. I would sign up one, come. And if you don't like me, that's fine. I understand. I mean, look, you got big goals. You envision, pro pickleball player for your son and NCAA and high school pickleball, et cetera, et cetera. So he came along and, you know, that's the vision he has. And, you know, I think that's kind of be the vision there. And I think that, you know, a lot more people will continue playing it. It's a game that you can go from zero to hero very quickly. And, you know, you can play a complete game for some people. I also know people don't like it actually. and have tried it and said, you know, I don't get it. The rules are complicated. I don't get this kitchen business. I don't get this, you know, 012 or 001. Everything's

SPEAKER_04: 32:55

complicated.

SPEAKER_02: 32:57

And all of that. So, you know, there's a few people I've met like that. And, you know, there's a few people I've coached don't want to come back. And it's not because they didn't like me. Maybe that was it. But they just didn't like it. And But, you know, I think that's kind of where the game's going. You know, look, the game is way bigger than any of us. And, you know, I think that other countries will adopt it. I think it's getting really big in India. From what I hear, it's going to be big. It's going to be big in India because, you know, Indians love racquet sports. Indians can't get into tennis. You know, India is a country that's from a landmass perspective, one fourth of this great country that we live in. And it has four, nearly five times as many people The court spaces are small. India has tons of badminton courts. Badminton is very popular, but it's not very accessible. So I think pickleball will boom in India. And, you know, I think that it will also boom in China correspondingly. You know, Europe has a competitor with pedal. That's fine. I've played pedal as well. It's much harder than pickleball. And I think, you know, when Europeans get given the choice between these and, you know, it's just, you know, the learning curve is not as steep to kind of get going. So I think these are all the things. I mean, so my vision, it's kind of what's going on out there. And, you know, at some point, what will happen is there won't be any need for Akash Agarwal and his coaching services. But that's fine as well. That's fine as well. It's not my job. It's really my hobby. And it's fine. And, you know, I tell everyone around me that, you know, it's helped me grow with the game. It's helped me learn. And, you know, I have a plan for every student that I teach. And fortunately, coming back to that student, his name was Ismail, the kid. And I told him, keep smiling. And I said to the kid, keep having fun. And I told the dad, look, this is the best time of your life. Right now, you may be the student and he may be the student and we may be the teachers, but very soon this kid will become the teacher. I can speak from experience of my son. My son can school me both in pickleball and tennis. And that is life. And to just have a wonderful time, I said, you know, sign yourself up on, go to these places and play as a father-son team and, you know, make sure that joy never goes away from the kid, regardless of whether he becomes NCAA and pro and this and that. You know, it's nice if he does, but, you know, make sure he can play the game so he gets invited by friends to play. Pickleball is a great way for me to socialize. I got so many Emails coming in from venture capitalists, this, that, and the other. I'm doing pickleball tournament. Can you come in? Can you coach? Can you orchestrate this? That is what's it. And that's what I told my son as well. When he was learning tennis, I said, look, becoming a pro tennis player, college-level tennis player, these are really, really hard. But what you can do is become a good enough player to that level where people invite you to their social clubs, to their places, because... Unfortunately, life's like that. You know, people want to play with good players. So, you know, you'll make and what I find is with anyone who plays a sport like our wonderful sport pickleball, you may meet high quality people.

SPEAKER_00: 36:30

Yeah, people from all walks of life.

SPEAKER_02: 36:32

Yeah, they're good people. You know, people are generally good people. And, you know, and if you can find something that that brings you together, it could be pickleball. It's great.

SPEAKER_01: 36:43

Yeah. And I think you highlighted, just highlighted the most important life lesson of all is joy. Yeah, just have fun. Have a good time. There's nothing in life that you don't have joy. If you don't

SPEAKER_02: 36:53

like it and if you think it's, you know, some tennis players have a very sort of curmudgeon attitude towards it, that's fine. And they can. It's a free world. Stick to tennis. You know, we don't want any more tennis players coming in. We've got plenty of people that just want to play pickleball. They don't want anything to do with tennis. They don't need to divorce tennis. You don't need to divorce tennis to play pickleball. No,

SPEAKER_00: 37:15

you're an example of that. I actually had to unlearn my tennis technique. Yeah,

SPEAKER_02: 37:19

that's what Jeff keeps telling me. You don't need to do this and that and the other.

SPEAKER_00: 37:24

Oh, Akash, we could keep talking to you for three hours, but you are one busy man, and we really appreciate you taking the time out to talk with us today. Loved your article. Love the work you're doing on Teach Me, Teach Me Too, and the coaching. And my gosh, thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 37:43

Thank you, ladies, for what you're doing for the sport. You know, everyone is part of this movement. And it's the movement for good, and U.S. will become a force. We will have this in the Olympics. People ask me, the single biggest question I get right now, not whether it'll be NCAA sport and pro, obviously it's happening. And we know a lot of great tennis players moving in there, including the great Andre Agassi, is that, you know, when will it make it in the Olympics? And I think it's not going to make it in the next one, but it will. I have got a very strong feeling it will make it in the one after that. 2032,

SPEAKER_00: 38:23

we had a conversation with Ruth Rosenquist, who is with the Global Pickleball Federation. And they're the ones working toward that. And she was saying 2032 is the likely next Olympics. So pretty exciting.

SPEAKER_02: 38:38

Yeah. And I've got one question for you. Which other country other than the U.S. is this game growing as fast as it is here?

SPEAKER_00: 38:48

You name it. In fact, Iran. Oh, as fast as it is here? Or

SPEAKER_02: 38:54

similar or similar. It doesn't have to be yet.

SPEAKER_00: 38:57

Greece, Iran. Turkey, India, well, how many? 52. Latin America. 52 represented countries in the global pickleball federation. And Africa, big time, many countries in Africa. They already have, I think she said, 25 countries in Africa are part of the Africa Pickleball Association. And yeah, it's a world phenomenon. It's a world phenomenon. Oh, thank you, Akash. Amazing, amazing.

SPEAKER_02: 39:29

Thank you. Great stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 39:31

So fun talking with you. Have a great day. And hey, everybody, thank you so much for being a part of this show. We love having you. And how lucky are we to have talked with Akash today? Have a great day. And we look forward to our conversation next week. Bye bye. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 39:46

If you love our podcast, we'd be so grateful if you'd take a few seconds to follow or subscribe to Life Lessons from Pickleball. This ensures you'll never miss an episode and helps us continue these wonderful conversations.

SPEAKER_00: 40:00

On Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen, go to the show page and tap the follow button in the top right corner. And on YouTube, click the subscribe button under any of the episodes. Thanks so much. Hope to see you on the court.

UNKNOWN: 40:16

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