Life Lessons From Pickleball and Writing

Speaker 1 0:00

Hi, I'm Shelly Maurer and I'm Cher Emrick. Welcome to Life.

Speaker 2 0:04

Lessons from Pickleball where we engage with pickleball players from around the world about life on and off the court.

Speaker 1 0:12

Thanks for joining us. Hi everyone, Welcome to Life Lessons from Pickleball. We are so happy to have with us an award-winning author, Jennifer Sienes. Jennifer, you are college educated, but I love how you say you've discovered life experience is the best teacher.

Speaker 3 0:32

You love.

Speaker 1 0:33

Jesus, romance and writing, and you've put it all together in inspirational contemporary fiction.

Speaker 3 0:41

You are also the host of Between the Lines of Contemporary Christian Fiction Podcast and have a blog called so Many Books, so Little Time. We want to hear about your work, but first we know you love pickleball. We wonder how you were first introduced to the game and what was going on in your life at the time.

Speaker 4 1:02

You know, it's a funny story. I was a teacher for years middle school teacher and one of my friends that I had taught with. We were both retired and she and her husband invited my husband and I to have dinner with them and they said we're going to be playing pickleball. I didn't know what pickleball was, but I was thinking ping pong or you know. I had no idea. So this was several years ago. So I was, it was summertime, it was hot, hot, hot. It was in Northern California. I was wearing sandals and little shorts and we show up and they look at me like, uh, did you bring other shoes? And I'm like, really no, I didn't. So my my first foray and they had like a massive these are, these are teachers, right, we're not talking big money, but they had a massive pickleball court with lights for night playing and fenced in and the whole bit.

Speaker 4 1:52

So, that's I started. I played probably three or four games running around on those silly little sandals. That did my feet no good, but I fell in love with the game from that from right. Then yeah, and when was that? Oh my gosh, it probably was seven years ago or so.

Speaker 1 2:10

Right before.

Speaker 4 2:11

yeah, we moved out to Tennessee, so it was before we moved out to Tennessee.

Speaker 1 2:16

And did you just? Were you hooked right away, or are you what?

Speaker 4 2:20

I'm very competitive. So, um, and you know the hard thing is they had both played forever. My husband played tennis for years, so I was a lame duck there. You know I was not athletic. I don't think I've been athletically inclined most of my growing up. I I'm better now than I was when I was a kid, but it took some. It took some work on my end, you know, but I picked it up pretty fast and I'm I really did enjoy it.

Speaker 3 2:45

Well, the way we found out about you, jennifer, is the great article you wrote. Life is like a game of pickleball. Do you want to tell us about that?

Speaker 4 2:54

Sure, as an author, I spend a lot of time writing blog posts and I want to use real life instances in order for people to really understand the things of our lives. You know, I'm a Christian, so a lot of these things play into that Christian aspect. So the funny little rules that came up in Pickleball, like the dinking and the kitchen and the different areas, were all so new to me and I started thinking when you're not allowed to stay in the kitchen, you got to get in, get out, you volley and you get out and that's it. Well, it's like a kitchen in real life you get too many people in there and the next thing, you know, it's crowded and it's chaotic. And I thought well, it's like when we are budding our business, our noses, into other people's businesses, you know we're being getting unsolicited advice or we're gossiping. We're just doing things that we shouldn't be doing and we need to stay in our own little area. So I thought about that and that's what I use that analogy for.

Speaker 4 3:48

And one of the others was when you are dinking because you are, you can do the dinking when you're just going back and forth nice and slow. I like dinking because I'm not a big athletic person so when they start slamming that ball I get all nervous and worry. But the dinking I can do. But we don't grow when we just stay comfortable. So we need to get out of that easy place and learn how to deal with life and then keep your eye on the ball. Don't anticipate what's happening later. Just stay in your lane, figure out what you're doing right now, at that moment, and stick with that so you're not worrying about what might happen later on.

Speaker 4 4:30

And so keep your eye on the ball and in life, what are we doing when we're keeping the eye on the ball? Well, stay in what you're given to do, stick with what you're supposed to do and don't start worrying about everything on the outside or how it's going to play out, or if maybe it's not the right thing, or what's going to happen if I do this? Is that going to fail? Maybe it's not the right thing, or what? What's going to happen if I do this? Is that going to fail? Am I going to? You know? Just you just need to keep your eye on what you're doing and just be true to that, and then just let God deal with the rest of it. He's in charge of the rest. You just stay with it go.

Speaker 1 4:56

Yeah, let it go. Yeah. Be in charge of what. Take control over what we actually have control over absolutely.

Speaker 4 5:04

I just think we spend so much time worrying about what if you know and it can really. I know a lot of people want to be writers. I've talked to a lot of brand new authors and they're terrified of stepping out, because what if I fail? Well, if you don't try it, you're going to fail. It's a guarantee you have to get out there and then then you got to stick with it. It's nothing worth having comes easy. Even learning how to play pickleball, you know. You just got to keep on practicing.

Speaker 3 5:35

Drilling and drilling, and drilling.

Speaker 1 5:39

I think you also mentioned something about needing to lean on each other or with our partners.

Speaker 4 5:44

Yeah, I think that we need to depend on our partners, and when you're playing pickleball and you're playing with a partner, you know you have to let them get in there and help you when you need help, and then you also have to be okay when they mess up, because sometimes when somebody gets in there to help you they don't do it perfectly and you got to appreciate that they're there to start with.

Speaker 1 6:03

I think, having that somebody there that you can count on, Especially because we have each, as beginners in pickleball, had others who were helping us get better and better, and then, once a person is really good at it, we can forget what it was like to be starting all over again.

Speaker 4 6:22

For the most part I think Sorry, I'm sorry. That's anything in life, anything we're starting new. You know, it seems like it's overwhelming when we start, so true, yeah.

Speaker 1 6:32

So true, and having people who've been there done that, who can guide us along the way and not criticize us, because we're usually our worst critics anyway. We are Absolutely I do that on the court. Do you do that on the court?

Speaker 4 6:48

Absolutely there were some wonderful people when we first started playing that were very expert at it and they took the time. They were so patient, teaching me how to serve well, or let's just try it this way. And it wasn't about winning a game, it was about bringing a community of people together and enjoying the time and just having fun.

Speaker 1 7:11

Having fun. Doesn't it feel like we're kids again when we're on the court? Yeah, it does. It's like it's recess.

Speaker 4 7:18

It is. One poor man fell and about broke his hip. So you know, because I think about pickleball. I think that with there's not a lot of sports that you can play with your spouse. You know, there were golf, maybe, and then we found this to be true with pickleball and one of my good friends, her dad, was playing pickleball into his 90s. Wow yeah, and my father-in-law played golf into his 90s. So there are only a couple of things that you can keep going on with for a very long time and still be good at it.

Speaker 3 7:53

How lucky. I plan on playing into my 90s. I love it.

Speaker 1 7:59

I do too. That's fun. How did you get into writing, oh my?

Journey Through Life's Hardships

Speaker 4 8:06

gosh. Well, I have wanted to be a writer since I was about 12 years old and I had the most incredible mom. She just was such an encourager and she said you're gifted, you can do it, you can do it, and just kept on. Well, then life happens. You know, I got married way too young. I had two kids and I tried to write, but I didn't feel like I had anything worthy to write about. My life hadn't quite taken any kind of turns. You know it's kind of boring you can only write what you know, and if you don't know anything, you're not writing much. So I got frustrated with that and I went ahead and went back to school, got my teaching certificate and I taught middle school for several years and then there were just a series of really hard.

Speaker 4 8:51

It was a season of hard, hard stuff. My son was in a pretty bad accident, had a couple of skull fractures. Then the following year my daughter was in a car accident and had traumatic brain injury and was in a coma and took almost a year of recovery to relearn everything again. And then, when she was recovered on Christmas day, my husband said I want my own life, I'm gone, and he walked out. So, and then at the same time, my mom was diagnosed with leukemia. So all this happened at one time and I, I was a mess. I was just a mess.

Speaker 4 9:23

So I, my husband I'm married to now he's actually my chiropractor. He hates me telling this because you're not supposed to date your patients but for a few years, and when we got married, he said you know, if God put it on your heart to write, don't you think that's what you should be doing? Why don't you, if that's what you want to do, step away from teaching and give it a shot? And so I did, and so worked for a lot of years, a lot of years learning the craft, got an incredible agent and ended up walking away from that. When life just happened.

Speaker 4 9:56

And here I am back at it. I have my 14th book will be published in November and my publisher just is closing down and I was going to leave anyway because it's just, it's hard when you have no control over things. And so she. They gave me the rights back to all my books. So I'm receiving all the rights back to these books and I'm on a new journey of self-publishing and I'm redoing covers that I don't think were done well, the first time, and so it's just. It's been a long journey. It's been a real long journey, but it's exciting.

Speaker 1 10:29

My goodness, there's a lot to unpack there. Jennifer, first, I'm still very moved by all that was going on in your life, with all of the hardships. First, your son.

Speaker 4 10:43

His son got hurt. He was in a skateboarding accident. Skateboarding, yeah, without a helmet. What Without a helmet? Oh, without a helmet Going off for some girls down at the church at the bottom of the hill, you know yeah you don't want to wear a helmet when you're trying to show off. No, it's not cool.

Speaker 1 11:03

And then your daughter was in a car accident and had serious brain injury.

Speaker 4 11:09

Yes, oh, my goodness, she had to learn everything from scratch. So actually those were inspirations for my well, the first book I actually wrote and I didn't even include this my brother committed suicide and and so the first book I actually really dug into and wrote was inspired by that that story and family dealing with that. And I had to rewrite it three times. It was just, it was just too hard, it was too dark, and God really worked me through that whole storyline and I rewrote it, and so that is actually the third book in my first series.

Speaker 4 11:44

And then I did another story about a pastor's family and the daughter getting in a car accident and losing her memory, but right before that she discovered something about her mom that's going to tear the family apart. That she discovers something about her mom that's going to tear the family apart, so her mom's now having to. Am I going to confess this thing that's going to tear her family apart, or am I going to hope my daughter doesn't wake up, or not wake up but doesn't remember when she wakes up, or is that even the right thing to do? And so it inspired some of those stories. So I see the hand of God in it, if you know what I mean. I see, now I have things I could write about. I could dig deep for a lot of emotion that I could not come up with before because I had nothing hard happen in my life.

Speaker 1 12:28

And then you had a whole lot of hard happen in your life. Yeah.

Speaker 4 12:32

And your husband leaving.

Speaker 1 12:33

Christmas Eve, Christmas Day.

Speaker 4 12:36

Christmas Day is when he finally said you know, I want my own life, I'm done. And that was it for him. He walked out and we've been married almost 23 years. So yeah, yeah, so yeah. You know, I ended up with a better part of the deal. I'll tell you. I was just telling my husband yesterday if it weren't for him and his support and his encouragement and his endless amount of building me up, I wouldn't be doing the writing. I would still be teaching which is fine, I love teaching but I wouldn't be exploring something different. And this is your calling.

Speaker 1 13:14

This is definitely your calling, Jennifer.

Speaker 4 13:17

I really believe God called me to this. It's a ministry more than anything else.

Speaker 1 13:21

Yeah, yeah, and you said you tried writing but you didn't have much to write about because it was early in life and all that. And wow, have you acquired a whole lot of depth in the experiences you've had. In the experiences you've had, I imagine it was cathartic to use your own life stories and the journey that you were on to incorporate into writing these stories. Was that the case?

Speaker 4 13:45

Absolutely Especially the first book with my brother, because he and I were so close growing up. He was exactly a year older than me, we were both born in January and everybody thought we were twins because we were inseparable growing up and I adored him. He was funny and he had so much passion for life and he was incredible and he is the one who gave me my first Bible. He became a born again Christian. So when he killed himself and he had misdiagnosed bipolar disorder so it wasn't and he was on the wrong meds and it was a whole slew of things. But when he committed suicide I was so angry with him, you know, and a year after his death I opened up my Bible that he'd given me. I was, I was reading it one morning and in the back it talked about because he had given me that Bible when I was going through my divorce and he was trying to encourage me and he said, um, in the Bible he said you can do all things through Christ, who strengthens you, never give up. And I just bawled and I'm like you gave up, you know you, you gave up and it just broke me.

Speaker 4 14:50

So, um, I write the, wrote that first book and and I, you know, I ended up with that book getting a really well known agent and then so I wrote it over like three times before it was. I wanted it to be filled with hope and some. I don't like heavy, heavy stuff. I love humor and I think that humor helps us to deal with a lot of tension. And books that are all heavy I can't do it. There's got to be some fun in there as well and some hope. So I, writing that book over that many times, really gave me that, that sense of hope and gave me the product that I thought was more representative of my brother, you know, in the end.

Speaker 1 15:35

In my former life I was a Presbyterian minister and there were some folk who had died by suicide and in my experience, the ones who and sounds like your brother also had a chemical imbalance. But it's so often the tender hearted people who just take on the weight of the world and it just becomes too much, and never judgment. I mean we all do the best we can and. But I appreciate the all the emotion and the and the anger and the fear and the sadness and all that being incorporated for those who are left behind. And I really appreciate that you are utilizing your own experience in your stories because I know it will touch the hearts of so many people who have also experienced a loved one who left by suicide. So I really appreciate you doing that.

Speaker 4 16:38

Thank you. It's sad. I had an appointment with somebody to interview this morning and it's a woman that I know pretty well, an author that I've worked with, and she also is a pastor and she didn't show up. And I'm going into my third year of podcasting and I've never had a no show. So I emailed her, and I emailed her and didn't get anything. And so then I started getting really concerned and she finally emailed me back and said I'm sorry, my husband tried to take his life last night and I'm just a mess, you know it, just it doesn't end. You know it's, just it's. And these are, these are people that have a strong faith in God. Sure, and you hear people say, well, if they really had a strong faith, they wouldn't do that. Well, you know that's so unfair.

Speaker 4 17:21

And when I wrote Providence, the reviews that came back. I was really afraid of some people coming at me about the whole thing you know, suicide of faith and they said thank you, thank you, thank you. We are in the church and we are told all the time, well'll, just suck it up and have more faith and you won't have these feelings and people will not talk about it in the church and it's just, it's all taboo, you know. So if it touches one person, if one one book I write touches one person the way it's intended, that's, it's well worth the time and energy that I put into it.

Speaker 1 17:56

You're clearly touching many, many, many, many, many hearts with all of your stories, with all of them and the idea that God would not be understanding and compassionate, especially when somebody is suffering. We would not choose to die by suicide if we were not suffering.

Speaker 1 18:13

I mean there is so to say, oh well, god doesn't accept you because you were suffering, that was, oh. I've never understood that perspective and I don't. I don't accept it. That's not the perspective I have. There's a compassionate, loving being who is going to embrace us, no matter where we are in our living or our dying, no matter where we are in our living or our dying. But I do love that there are now resources for people who are feeling like they can't go on, and so we do want to put that out, that please do reach out and talk to someone and tell them that you are really at that place of depth. We need to talk about death and dying much more easily than we do, and it's curious that in the church of all places, where it's very often a taboo subject just dying at all, even though we know we're all going to die, there's no way out of it, we're not getting out of this alive.

Writing Book Series and Life's Challenges

Speaker 1 19:12

Who said that? Some actor, I think, said that, yeah, we're not getting out alive. So, uh, this has gone down a different path than I anticipated, but I just feel like it's an important conversation and um the fact that you have written this very lovely story and shared your own heart through it. It's so meaningful, thank you yes, so tell us you.

Speaker 3 19:35

my understanding is you've your books, are you've written two separate series? I've written two.

Speaker 4 19:41

Yes, there's the Apple Hill series, which takes place in Placerville, california, where my grandparents had a place right off Apple Hill Drive. As I was growing up, set that one there. And then Bedford County series takes place in Tennessee middle Tennessee.

Speaker 4 20:01

So in Bedford County of all places, and that one is a little more. There's some hard stuff in there but there's more lighthearted, romantic elements to that. That series and I'm starting a brand new series, I'm almost finished with book one is the first one I'm publishing on my own and it is going to call the Norfolk Southern series and it's got the railroad as a background. So we have railroad workers and because my one of our closest friends has his whole life was the railroad, retired from it, and so I'm texting him every day. Okay, what do I do with this situation and what happens if that happens? And he's, and he's sat down with me and I've interviewed him and he's given me all this information and it's way more than I can use, but the more authentic I can make it the better. So that's our, my new series.

Speaker 1 20:48

Oh, I feel like we're privileged to have this inside scoop to this new one. When do you think it will be available for the public?

Speaker 4 20:56

I'm planning on getting it published by April. Nice, and the first one is called Trainwrecked Hearts.

Speaker 1 21:05

Trainwrecked Hearts Nice Cool title.

Speaker 3 21:09

So, then, the other two series are complete. They are complete.

Speaker 4 21:13

Yeah, they're complete. They've been the last book in that series, the last novel in that series published last April, and then the Christmas novella, which is the last of that entire series, publishes in November, and then that'll be done.

Speaker 1 21:28

How do you go about writing? I mean, are you the kind who you set a certain number of hours every day and you sit in front of that computer no matter what? Or do you wait for inspiration?

Speaker 4 21:40

You got to have your butt in the chair. I'm just. You know, sometimes inspiration doesn't come until I sit down. And I've really learned I can't just sit and start writing. So I've got to. I've got to stop and really pray about it.

Speaker 4 21:51

And when I first started I thought, well, I'm just going to write by the seat of my pants and it'll all be great. And I wrote a book years and years ago, actually, when my daughter was in the hospital. I went back to writing because I was by her side for months and months and months and I brought my computer with me and I would write while she was sleeping. And I wrote myself into a corner and I thought, ok, now, how am I going to get out of this mess? So now I at least have to something in there.

Speaker 4 22:21

And then oftentimes, uh, characters show up that I didn't expect, or they say something I wasn't expecting, taking the story in a whole different way, and it's kind of mind-blowing. It's like I I think it was, um, william Faulkner, maybe there was a writer who said that writing is like taking a pencil and pad and running behind your characters, just trying to keep up with what they do, because they really do, they take on a life of their own and they, they start running the story and I'm just trying to keep up.

Speaker 1 22:49

I feel like I'm typist so I love that. I love that my sister, geraldine Marler, is an author and, um, I've just, I can't, I wouldn't be able to, i't, you know, to sit down and write, you know, and to have the patience to let the characters come to you. And so you, before you even start you, you kind of know how it's going to begin, you kind of know what the middle is going to be and you kind of know how you want to end it before you get started.

Speaker 4 23:20

Well, I usually have my characters in mind. It'll start with a character, in fact my, the book I wrote in my first series, the last book that I wrote, which was the first one published. This character was in. Her name is Tess and she was in Providence, my first book, my suicide book. She was in that book and my critique group said, oh, we love this character, she's great. Are you going to bring her up even more? Well, when I did the rewrite, she was cut out completely, but then she kept staying in my mind. You know she was. She became a real person. So I had to write her own book. So she had a book. So sometimes that's how it happens. Often it'll be um, uh. Shadow dancing was actually inspired by a couple in our church. It didn't come out to be anything like that, but that's what it was inspired by. Was this couple and their life that they had previous to when I knew them, and you just never know.

Speaker 1 24:15

That's so good. Do they be feel like your friends After a while?

Speaker 4 24:19

they do. I mean you have, I have so many people in my head, you know, trying to keep up with them, and when you're done with the book and you're finished, it's sad because now you're stepping away and you're going. It's like saying goodbye to some friends for a while. Yeah.

Speaker 1 24:33

Especially when you end a series. So will you ever do cross characters, like characters from one series show up in another series? I don't.

Speaker 4 24:44

I possibly could. I mean, I don't know how much I mean I'm. I'm 62 years old, you know, I don't know how many more years I'm going to be doing this, but my husband seems to think I can do it well into my eighties. So we'll just see how things go.

Speaker 3 24:58

Oh, you've got pickleball too.

Speaker 4 25:01

You guys. I have a hobby room filled with stuff. I've got a piano that I want to learn. My grandpa was a professional piano player and he never learned to read music but he played at the Pleasanton Hotel for 10 years as a piano man on the weekends. He was incredible. I did not get his talent, but I have a craft room with all kinds of stuff. I want to do pickleball, I want to do gardening, I've got a greenhouse now I want to do this and I want to do that, and yet the writing is the priority, so everything else kind of goes along the sidelines a little bit. And we just built a house. So that took up a lot of time, you know.

Speaker 1 25:36

Wow, yeah, that would. So. Do you play pickleball regularly or just now and again?

Speaker 4 25:46

Just now and again Right now, I did. We went. We have a condo down at Orange Beach, alabama. Do you know where that is the Gulf Coast? No, it's a beautiful area and we bought it as a, as an investment. But we went down one week and we took the pickleball stuff with us and we have a pickleball court outside and it was the only time I've ever played outside, because we've always done inside. I like outside much better. I think it's more fun than inside.

Speaker 1 26:07

Yeah, it is fun.

Speaker 4 26:09

Well.

Speaker 1 26:10

I suspect that pickleball too, when you can get out it kind of clear your mind, clear everything, and then things kind of bubble up that you didn't expect. I love how you said that these characters I find it fascinating. So you said this character said something. I didn it fascinating. So you said this character said something I didn't expect. Like but you're the one writing it. No, the character is talking to you.

Speaker 4 26:33

I just love that. They're their own people. You just got to keep up with them. It's kind of freaky. It's kind of freaky, you know that's fascinating. But sometimes they reveal things that I didn't know happened in their past. Oh my gosh, it's revealed. I'm like, well, that's why she's acting that way. It's, it really is a very strange. Um, it's a strange career writing people that you don't know yet.

Speaker 1 27:00

So, but fun and introducing all of us to those people that you didn't know before. I love that. So, in all of this experience of writing and all of these life challenging experience by the way, how's your daughter now?

Speaker 4 27:19

She is a my miracle girl. She is now. She got finished up college. She got a master's in information and library science. She is now the assistant research professor librarian at Tennessee State University. Wow.

Speaker 1 27:34

Okay, that brings me to tears. Oh, I am so happy to hear that.

Speaker 4 27:39

Yeah, she's incredible. She still has some issues, you know. Her husband won't even let her cook because she'll mess it up. So he does all the cooking and she has no sense of smell, which also irritates him because she's got all these chickens and birds. She's a farm girl, you know, and has all this stuff and he's like you need to clean the pens. They stink and she can't smell it. So it's not a problem for her where she has issues, but it it made her a more empathetic person. You know, she's just got this. It blows my mind to see my daughter talk about her work and how smart she is, because I don't think of her that way. She's just innocent and fun and has this young heart. And then she starts talking about all this brainiac stuff and I'm like where are you getting that stuff from? I didn't know it was even in you. So she's a treasure.

Speaker 1 28:27

Oh, that is a very heartwarming ending to that very difficult journey she was on. But, as you say, you know, even in those hardships, that's often where we have life lessons, and so are there lessons that you have gleaned from the various hardships you've been through.

Speaker 4 28:48

Oh, you know I don't take things. Something hard happens. I've learned how to roll with it in a way that there's a reason and a purpose in it beyond what I can sometimes understand, and maybe I won't understand it on the side of heaven. But I know that God is absolutely in control. I know that he loves my children far more than I ever could. So when I'm stressing about them I'm like, okay, he's got them. I can't control it. So, all the heart, I couldn't control any of that stuff. That was part of my problem, always wanting to control and then having it all ripped out from under me and realizing I have no control and trying to hang on to it. It's just, it's just annoying everybody around you. You know, let it go and let God.

Speaker 1 29:36

Let go and let God I like that Well good. Good lesson for us to be on when we were talking about the pickleball. Same thing Be in control of what you have. Control over, trust the partner, do your best and if you miss a shot, let it go move to the next shot. Yeah, wow. Well, thank you so much, jennifer. I know you are super busy and you have your own podcast and you've got your all your books you're writing and you have all these gardening and other hobbies and piano and everything else and time out to talk with us. Really appreciate it.

Speaker 4 30:12

I'm honored that you guys contacted me. Thank you so much, it's been fun.

Speaker 1 30:16

Thank you, looking forward to your new book too. So, how can people find you?

Speaker 4 30:21

Well, I have my website, jennifersianiscom, so I have newsletter you can sign up for. I've got a weekly blog post. I'm on Amazon and my podcast is also on there, between the lines of contemporary Actually, I switch it to between the lines of Christian fiction, because it's all across the board. I'm not just doing contemporary, I'm doing fantasy or whatever, so I'm all over the place. If you just get my name spelled right, you'll find me, and so do that.

Speaker 1 30:49

So spell your last name, s I.

Speaker 4 30:52

E N E S Sienes.

Speaker 1 30:56

JenniferSienescom. Perfect, yeah, well, now y'all have what you need. Thank you so much, jennifer. And thank you all for joining us today Very moving. Still thinking about your daughter. That's very, very cool. Well, thank you all, and we look forward to a new conversation next week. Bye-bye, bye-bye.

Speaker 2 31:17

Bye. If you love our podcast, we'd be so grateful if you'd take a few seconds to follow or subscribe to Life Lessons from Pickleball. This ensures you'll never miss an episode and helps us continue these wonderful conversations On.

Speaker 1 31:33

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Speaker 2 31:48

Thanks so much. Hope to see you on the court.