Navigating Relationships in Pickleball

Speaker 1 0:00

Hi, I'm Shelly Maurer and I'm Cher Emrick. Welcome to Life.

Speaker 2 0:04

Lessons from Pickleball where we engage with pickleball players from around the world about life on and off the court.

Speaker 1 0:12

Thanks for joining us. Welcome everyone to Life. Lessons from Pickleball. We are absolutely overjoyed to have Terry Sitterman and Dr Stormy Hill with us today. They are the dynamic co-authors of the Amazon bestseller book In a Pickle how to Master Love and Pickleball and Not Kill Each Other. I love that title.

Speaker 2 0:38

It's so good, so good. I can't wait to hear all about the book and your own personal pickleball journeys, but first tell us about your backgrounds and how they helped you write the book.

Speaker 3 0:49

Okay, I'll start. I'm Terry. Thank you so much for having us on your podcast. We're so excited to be here. I live in Austin. I'm an executive coach and an author. I've written several books for my business from the CEO's perspective is the latest besides the Pickleball book and I help people with communication skills and having hard conversations and giving feedback, so that was a good basis for writing this book Really good basis.

Speaker 4 1:23

Yeah for sure she's the best co-author ever. So I'm Dr Stormy Hill and I am a mental health occupational therapist. I've done that for about 20 years now and also a certified relationship and intimacy coach, working with couples around intimacy and communication. And same thing. It was like well, you're going to hear our personal stories. But it was like, wow, we need to apply some of these things that we do with our clients to our own games on the pickleball court with our partners. And then we saw the same thing happening with others. And that was the start of the book.

Speaker 1 1:56

So that was the start of the book. Well, how did you even get to know about pickleball and how'd you meet each other?

Speaker 3 2:02

so many questions so I lived in Seattle for 25 years, the birthplace of pickleball never saw a court, never heard of the game, knew no one who played it. And then we moved to Austin, which is the center of the universe apparently as of late as it relates to pickleball, and so my husband and I picked up paddles and started playing this crazy game and got hooked and things went up and things went down and things went up again sometimes and then they went down, and that's been the story. But Stormy and I met in Costa Rica, so I'll pass it to you, you can continue.

Speaker 4 2:47

Yeah, so on the pickleball court in Costa Rica and I was drawn to. I'm like, who is this feisty, fiery, energetic, awesome woman and a very good pickleball player too? And I'm like I need to meet her. And that was two years ago, right, yeah, and we've been, you know, dear friends and now we're co authors, which has made us even more dear friends, because that's not an easy journey to co author together.

Speaker 3 3:14

So that's how I feel like we share blood.

Speaker 4 3:16

Yeah, let's sweat and tears now.

Speaker 4 3:23

And then, yeah, for me, I started playing pickleball. It was two years ago in this month, two years ago in January, and I always have like full disclosure. I came from tennis. So when my boyfriend two years ago wanted me to play, I said, I literally said I'm too athletic, I'm too young, I'm never playing that sport. And I came from tennis and now I, you know, can't imagine my life without it and we, you know, it's such an allegiance and such, a, uh, just life changing, amazing sport that I hope to be playing forever.

Speaker 2 3:53

Yeah, for sure. When I don't think of Costa Rica, when I think of pickleball. So you're right. Yeah, where, where were you? Where in Costa Rica, just curious. We were in Playa del Coco, we both, we both lived there part time. Where, where were you? Where in Costa Rica, just curious.

Speaker 4 4:06

We were in Playa del Coco. We both, we both lived there part-time and Costa Rica actually is really up and coming in pickleball. They had they went to the world cup in Peru the last two years and had friends of ours representing Costa Rica there, and so you know, definitely some really amazing players, but definitely not as popular, not even closest to the United States, but definitely not as popular and not even close as to the United States, but definitely up and coming.

Speaker 1 4:28

Wow, so it sounds like you could also. Your next book could be how to co-author a book without killing each other, I mean that's true.

Speaker 4 4:39

We have a lot of ideas. We're like we need to do one on pickleball dating, we need to do one on tournament play, but I like, I think we need to add how to co-author and I can just say, really, from my heart, it's super special to me. I already love Terry and I love her even more because you know, you just really, you really. It's really an intimate process writing a book together. There's obviously always going to be conflict and difference that arise, and so, for me, how, how do we navigate that? You know, as as friends and and and I'm just honored to say that Terry and I came out on the other end stronger and I consider her like a soul sister because we've gone through some stuff together and had to navigate it. So it's special.

Speaker 1 5:16

That's really cool, really cool. So what are, what are some of the things that you saw or experienced that inspired you to even write about how to not kill each other on the court? I just think that's hilarious. So how close did people come?

Speaker 4 5:34

We've seen a few things you better tell her about how we came up with kitchen knife moments.

Speaker 3 5:38

Yes, Kitchen knife moments is a key theme throughout our book. A friend of mine here in Austin coined the term. She was talking about the night before actually having a kitchen knife moment with her husband and she meant in the kitchen, like grabbing a knife. But I was like we're on the pickleball court, I'm like that is a pickleball thing. A pickleball thing because how many times do you want to stab your partner with a knife or a paddle or whatever is handy? Because they rolled their eyes or they said something stupid or they thought it was a coachable moment when it was clearly not a coachable moment. So kitchen knife moments is the foundation, I would say, of our book.

Speaker 4 6:21

Yeah, and I think you know it's, it's so true. And when she told me that I was laughing so hard I'm like that is absolutely has to go with the book. But I think you know, for me, my and Terry and I have a similar stories in that we have really great relationships with our love partners and then it kind of like fell started to fall apart or totally fell apart on the court as we got better, kind of. At the beginning it was, it was fine when we were both beginners, but then as we got better and started getting into tournament play, it got. It just started fell apart and I was like very sad because we actually were like I was like, can we even play pickleball together? And I'm like, come on, I'm a therapist, we we got to figure out, we got to be able to figure this out and I wanted to. I love playing with him.

Speaker 4 7:00

Well, I didn't love playing. I used to love playing with them, and then I didn't, and so it was really like, hmm, can we apply some strategies that Terry and I both know work in our professional lives and apply them to the pickleball court and apply them to relationships? And so we started playing with them ourselves, the two of us in our partnerships, seeing that they were effective and worked. And then started talking to friends and seeing the same things even at the tournament level, of couples fighting, you know, down at the PPA events and if you're playing against them you're excited because then you know you're about to win the next few points. But it's not fun when it's happening to you, and so really that's how it started. It was just like how do we apply things that we're doing in our professional life to the pickleball court, because it is such an awesome test of your relationship.

Speaker 1 7:43

What happens? Why is it that, when we get on the court with someone that we love dearly, why isn't that a natural to just be rooting for each other? Great question, yeah, what's the answer?

Speaker 3 8:00

Go ahead. Relationship coach. I have many thoughts, but go ahead.

Speaker 4 8:10

I love what Terri'm going to quote our pickleball pro in costa rica who said we expect more out of our partner, of our love partner. Right, so we? Which is kind of like it's true, but also like we were like why does that mean that we have to have less grace with our love partner? And how do we not? How do we have more grace with our love partner, or the same amount of grace? Because my partner was delightful when he would play with a woman that wasn't me, you know, and I was like what the heck is going on, and he probably would say the same about me. And so I think that's true. We do have expectations of those we love, and it can just go awry because we also make a lot of assumptions about our love partner that we don't maybe make about other people. But it's a great question for sure.

Speaker 3 8:51

With my husband, with Raj. He's a very good athlete and he got good at pickleball very quickly and didn't until he read the book, really couldn't comprehend that people don't learn in the way he learns he. People are not masters of of a particular subject Like he is. He's an engineer. He studies the game, he masters it. I mean we PPA is on, ppa TV is on all the time in our house and he's constantly like watching Ben Johns, watching you know how they do whatever shot.

Speaker 4 9:21

He's such a strategist.

Speaker 3 9:22

He's a strategist and so and really he doesn't understand, or didn't understand, that if he tells me how to do something different and I don't do it right away, that's what most people do. Most people don't do it right away. So you know, there was kind of a personal struggle in style and you know, not everyone learns at the same way, in the same way or at the same pace. And then his level I thought I was competitive until I, until he told me I wasn't, first of all, but also until I met people who are like well beyond, like real, real competitive, like I'm competitive about the things I want to be, but not everything. And his level is is a bit otherworldly.

Speaker 1 10:15

That is funny. It occurs to me too that our loved ones, we almost feel like they are a reflection of us, more than we would be with somebody who is just another partner. But so if my partner messes up, it feels more personal, like oops, I messed up, and so I can see how that would get kind of mixed up with the intimacy. It's complicated.

Speaker 4 10:39

It is complicated, I mean. That's why we say it's a little microcosm of your relationship. The pickleball court, playing with your love partner, is a microcosm of your relationship, not a mirror, but like an intense little microcosm. And we also say that Terry's line in the book is that it's like a communication workshop nonstop. You know it really is, but it gives you an opportunity to actually deepen your relationship, which is why we say to love more, like foundationally, actually make your relationship better and win more points. Right, so it's, it's both. It really this really is a relationship book that just happens to take place on the pickleball court.

Speaker 1 11:14

Yeah, I could see this book for anything, I mean pickleball is kind of the hook, but it applies to everything in our in friendships and and marriages or partnerships, and working with people at the office.

Speaker 3 11:28

It's true, because when we came to the point where we didn't think we could play together anymore, I felt despair. I felt absolute heartbreak, because I want to play with my husband and I want us to be that couple that you know, or contenders, but it didn't look like we were going to be able to survive playing pickleball together or life at the moment. You know, I was like I've never thought of this before, but I'm not even sure I like you.

Speaker 2 12:01

So everything, so yeah, so we really had to find.

Speaker 3 12:08

We like we had to find a way back, we had to, yeah, and so the book is really a big piece of of learning how to do that and now giving people sort of a guide of how not to go off the rails in the first place.

Speaker 1 12:24

Yeah right, exactly, preventative right. Yeah, so I don't have a partner yet, but my next partner, I know, is going to be a pickleball player and I want to have that in my back pocket before.

Speaker 3 12:34

I, yeah, I absolutely want to read this out loud, yeah there you go, there you go, great idea.

Speaker 4 12:40

Yeah, I used to say that's so funny when I was single. I would say, you know, I'm only going to date men that have, like, read this book, in this book. Now, I'd be like I'm going to date men that play pickleball and that have read this book if I was single. Yeah, yeah, it's really true. I mean we, even we even talk about the love languages, the five love languages on the court, like how to apply them to the pickleball court. Right, gary Chapman's five love languages, because it does really apply Like that's maybe thinking when Terry said that, like you know, you're trying to like there's a lot going on. There's a lot of communication, there's a lot of nonverbal communication going on. There's also expectations and intentions and you know, there's just so many places that it can go awry or there's so many places where you can like learn to rock it relationally on the pickleball court, where it really does give you a little bit of a workshop.

Speaker 1 13:28

Yeah, Glenn Peterson was our recent oh Shelley, you were going to say something.

Speaker 2 13:32

Well, I was just going to say I'm thinking also it's a sneaky way to get a husband who maybe hasn't been open to work on communication issues. If you've been trying to go to marriage counseling and it hasn't worked, you know, you can say, hey, I got this pickleball book we're gonna win more points and we're I love it.

Speaker 4 13:51

I like your thinking, shelly, yeah yeah, great suggestion, great suggestion.

Speaker 1 13:57

I was just remembering that glenn peterson is one of our guests and he said that when he and his wife were playing he's really careful about not saying anything. But she looked at him like stop it, and he said what? I didn't say anything, he's no, you just tipped your head down and I know what that is like. Oh, I didn't even realize that's what I do. So, we're so conscious of every little thing that we wouldn't be of a regular partner that we don't live with.

Speaker 2 14:25

Yeah, we wouldn't care.

Speaker 1 14:28

So what are some of the suggestions you can give our audience? On just some tips. Who are ready to have their kitchen knives pulled out? How to put them back in the shoe? Go ahead, jen.

Speaker 3 14:42

Well, my favorite tip is in pickleball and in life, always have a safe word. And when that safe word is spoken ours is pumpernickel, theirs is pineapple. Apparently, pineapple is a very common safe word, so I highly recommend something else. But when that safe word is spoken, everything stops. Everyone goes back to their corners. Yeah, regroup, reset, do whatever you need to do, but whatever was happening, this discontinues.

Speaker 1 15:12

Perfect.

Speaker 4 15:13

It's a great strategy. Terry brought that one to the book and like, cause, we were both bringing our collective ideas and I'm like I'm going to try it and I'm like, oh my gosh, this works. And I was still, I mean to this day. I was just playing with my partner two days ago and I said I looked at him, I said pineapple, and he's like all right, got it. You know, cause? I was like my bandwidth I'm not. I don't have the bandwidth right now for it to take feedback right now, and now is not the time and it just. It's just a clean, easy way to communicate very succinctly, you know what?

Speaker 1 15:40

I've never thought about using a safe word like even in an argument or something like that. Usually they think talk about safe words with sex but, here's safe word in every part of our lives, at any point, if we feel like whoa, I'm overwhelmed or whatever, just say that word and it what it's a reset.

Speaker 4 15:59

I think it's a reset for both. For me. It's a reset for both of us. It also lets him know where I am with one word. There doesn't need to be any other communication. You know it's. It's a great strategy. I, I, we use it all the time.

Speaker 3 16:12

Well, and you have to agree that this is what happens when we invoke the safe word, because one person can't keep going, it has to stop. Yeah, so you know respect the respect, the safe word.

Speaker 4 16:29

And I think that we have so many strategies in the book, but one that I really love is our first is the first chapter, which is the first rule pickleball is, and it's literally, don't be a dick. And the second say that again, it was a little. Pickleball is don't be a dick, don't be a dick. And the second rule pickleball is don't be a dick, in case you forget the first one, and that's not, that's a genderless term, because women, we can. We can be dicks just as much, but it's really a lovely like rule for pickleball and for life Just don't be a dick. Like it's pickleball. Let's have, let's keep it fun.

Speaker 3 17:01

Yes, so now, when, when I'm playing with Raj, I'll say first rule of pickleball. That's all I have to say.

Speaker 2 17:13

So good. That is good yeah.

Speaker 4 17:17

I think of the other.

Speaker 4 17:18

I think, if I had to pick a second strategy, I really like intention setting.

Speaker 4 17:21

That was something Terry and I came up with in the book and decided to try it ourselves.

Speaker 4 17:24

But you know, if you're going on the court and your partner is running to just crush every ball, and you know, destroy your opponents. And you know, if you're going on the court and your partner is running to just crush every ball, and you know, destroy your opponents, and you know, win, get a golden pickle and and you're like out there to just like burn some calories and have some fun and chat with the ladies, like you're probably going to be not on the same page, not, not one is not wrong or right. But so if you have an intention and share your intention, it just kind of lets you know where your partner is. You know for that day, for that game, for that rec player, you know round robin or whatever it is, it's a, it's it's really a strategy that we use a lot and I really like it because it just it just kind of cuts through some of the bullshit, so because you already know where your partner is and it might change, but you know where they where they're starting, at least.

Speaker 2 18:04

That's true, I love that idea because I started playing in a mixed league and some of the guys just have that intention and I don't know what to do with it, but I like that. So give me an example of an intention well.

Speaker 4 18:18

So, like this last time I said I had just taken a lesson. So I said I and I am a very much of a third shot drive person. I just I came from tennis and my personality, um, but, and I usually playing with guys more guys than ladies and so I've just gotten into the third shot drive. So I said to my boyfriend, I just took a lesson, I'm only doing third shot drops, and he was like, oh, and I'm like, and they're not very good. That's what I said right now. But I just told him I said I'm only going to do a third shot drop.

Speaker 4 18:47

So he knew it also worked really effectively because he could also kind of like, come over a little bit for like a good shake and bake, you know. So it was kind of fun, it was actually really fun, um, but it was very clear and he was like I would have probably been annoyed if I hadn't, like, cause I had a bunch into the net or you know, popped it up, he got, he, he got hit a few times, you know, and but he knew what I was working on and his was actually like I'm going to work on getting to the kitchen faster. I want to play a little aggressive. I want to poach more. I'm like great Poach away. So we knew each other's like what we were working on.

Speaker 4 19:17

So in this example, the intention was what we were working on. It doesn't have to be, but that's what it was for us the other day.

Speaker 3 19:23

Okay, but it also gives the opportunity to help each other. So if my intention is staying behind the line on serve to you know, then if I'm running in, I don't think I'm running in, but if I am, raj can say you know you need to stay back, you're not, you're not staying back, and that what you know. It's. It's feedback that I actually welcome, because I'm trying to do something different. That's great. I like that?

Speaker 1 19:49

Yeah, that's terrific yeah.

Speaker 3 19:55

And crouching in after a serve that's a hard one to remember. That's when your third shot.

Speaker 2 19:58

Anything is going to be terrible, yeah, and like, if you say that to someone, then it gets them thinking about what's my intention instead of just slamming the ball every time.

Speaker 4 20:06

Yeah totally Like, I like that footwork or you know what. I just want to have fun, like I mean there's we give examples in the book of tons of intentions, you know and just, but it's a great, you know, let's. It's sort of you know my energy for the day, like you know. Maybe I am feeling competitive and I want to work on. You know I have more. You said you were playing in a mixed league.

Speaker 3 20:31

And if you don't know the people that well, it's great to set intention together so you both know what you're. You know you kind of have a team code in that case.

Speaker 1 20:40

Yeah, that's good Might even be good to talk to the opponents and say what's your intention for this?

Speaker 3 20:48

game, to win, to beat you.

Speaker 1 20:50

That's their intention. This game to win, to beat you, that's their intention oh, that's cool do you have? So you two are success stories. I mean you. You found that there was a rub and you needed to figure things out on the court with your partners. Do you have other success stories that you can share?

Speaker 4 21:11

I would say that I'm, I would say I'm a success story in progress. But I feel like that's kind of normal, like helpful, like we all, I mean. I literally will say, just because we wrote the book does not mean we've mastered the book. Like, some days my boyfriend and I are really strong out there relationally and you know strategy and technique. Other days I'll be like we both need to reread the book, like we'll joke about it, you know.

Speaker 4 21:34

But because we're works in progress, we're messy mortals we all are and relationships are such a crucible for our own growth. So, yeah, I would say that that's how I feel about like, but we have, you know, there's, there's lots of stories in the book from, from friends that shared with us, about you know, their journey and how this helped them. And we have I'm thinking of our one mutual friend right now and what works for them and her strategy. She'll say to her husband all the time she'll say, fix that shit, meaning like, fix whatever error you're making, and he gets it, responds to it, like you know, loves it, and he is so like kind and gracious and, you know, loving with her because that's what she responds to. So they've learned what works for each other, and that's to me, that is an absolute success story.

Speaker 3 22:20

And they've been married 40 years. So yeah, exactly, oh wow.

Speaker 1 22:26

Shelly's almost that right.

Speaker 2 22:28

Wow, amazing.

Speaker 1 22:29

That's awesome. Great husband too.

Speaker 2 22:33

That's awesome.

Speaker 1 22:34

So life lessons I mean so much of your book is essentially life lessons, honestly, but that you maybe learned on the court and that you took into your life, or you've learned in your life and you're taking on to the court. What are some?

Speaker 3 22:50

One of the big lessons I learned because we moved to Austin about three years ago and community and wasn't so important to me or at least I didn't think it was. And when I moved here I mean, austin is an amazing city, the people here are. I never thought I'd live in Texas, but I'm really happily living in Texas. The community is amazing. I just it's hard to describe it's it's, but it's something you kind of wonder, like Stormy made a comment about. You know, what did we ever do before we had Pickleball? Like how did we live?

Building Community Through Pickleball

Speaker 4 23:33

pickleball, like how did we live? Yeah, I would absolutely echo the same thing. I think the community I've met some of my best friends like through, I mean, and I'm 48.

Speaker 4 23:38

I didn't expect to meet new best friends at this point in my life. You know, lifelong friends. I mean, oh, I had a hip replacement six months ago. I was out for four months and healing, and like our pickleball communities in here in Utah for me and in Costa Rica. And then you know, obviously Texas and Terry's friends like have been like they were such a massive source of support for me and they're like, don't worry, we'll see you soon on the court, like it just I mean it's really. It sounds silly, but pickleball has been absolutely life-changing. I mean it really in the community. I tell everyone I'm like you need to start playing pickleball because the community's the best.

Speaker 3 24:14

And I feel like people are missing out if they're not playing. I do yeah.

Speaker 4 24:20

And I mean I would say it's echoed in the reception of our book. Like it's been so beautiful. And Terry and I have both published books before in different spaces and, no surprise, the Pickleball community is amazing about this book. So it's just such a joy and such an honor I had a friend.

Speaker 2 24:35

I was texting me last night and she doesn't play Pickleball, and you know, I said, oh, I'm heading down in a couple days to Palm Springs with a group of my Pickleball friends and she said you know, it sounds like you've really found your people. I'm so jealous, and it's like you're right. People, I'm so jealous and it's like you're right, it's just great We've found our people.

Speaker 3 24:58

I mean part of our goal for writing the book is we want more people to play, we want more women to play, we want people to enjoy playing together, because there's not that many sports that you can do with your partner, especially if you're at. You know you can't play tennis together if you're at different levels, you can't do a lot of things. But pickleball is one of those things that you actually can and it can be fun. And if it's not fun, then read the book and make it fun.

Speaker 4 25:22

That's right. That's really well said.

Speaker 1 25:28

Perfect solution. That's really well said, perfect solution.

Speaker 4 25:31

I mean that was you know. I mean you immediately you're getting to see Terry's personality. But I mean I was like I am going to be like a little bit nerdier about it, a little bit more like therapist about it, and I was like and I wanted Terry to bring obviously her executive coaching amazing skills, her own pickleball story and also her like directness, but she's also hilarious. So she added like a lot of humor to the book. And so we I always say it's very snarky and it's very helpful and very relatable and it's meant to make you laugh and help you grow.

Speaker 1 26:00

Indeed, and I love how you're saving people from pickleball divorce.

Speaker 3 26:06

Well, another strategy that we tried out was getting a thruple to stay in the, you know, bdsm sex side of things. We um, my husband and I, found our friend jed, who played with me during mixed double tournaments and played with raj in uh men's. So Jed, ozar throuple. We've since kind of released Jed a little, not fully, but he's. He's less involved but he's still involved.

Speaker 1 26:38

Awesome, great, I think you've just increased the interest in pickleball.

Speaker 4 26:48

Safe words and throuples Lots of pickleball in the book, because we're like you know you just kind of mentioned um sherry, you mentioned a little bit, you teed towards it like how we have. You know, we expect more out of our partner. But also we try to like, make assumptions and we say in the book, like when you are playing this sport of this intensity and this competitive on in a small space with the person you're having sex with, there's a lot of things that can go wrong, you know, and that's what I'm saying, and then I end up sleeping on the couch and nobody wants that.

Speaker 1 27:24

Nobody wants that, nobody, oh my gosh. Well, you two are adorable and the book is outrageously wonderful, and we never did introduce our fourth, fifth person, our little being there, wren. Oh, for those who are watching the YouTube, oh my gosh, too adorable and quiet as a mouse, I mean really.

Speaker 4 27:45

Well, this is our first public appearance.

Speaker 1 27:47

Oh, she's good.

Speaker 4 27:48

We got her two days ago, three days ago, so oh and she's in for a long, wonderful life, and your book is called In a Pickle, how to Master Love and Pickleball and Not Kill Each Other.

Speaker 1 28:00

Oh my gosh, how can people find you?

Speaker 3 28:04

The book is on Amazon, so that's a great way to get it and how about the two of you.

Speaker 4 28:08

Yep, and so we're on Instagram at love, underscore and underscore pickleball and we have lots of tips on strategy and relationships on there.

Speaker 1 28:19

And then our website is loveandpickleballnet. Awesome, oh Shelly, how lucky are we.

Speaker 2 28:23

We're very lucky we get to talk to such amazing people.

Speaker 1 28:26

Oh my gosh. Well, dr Stormy and Terry, thank you so much for being on the show, and Ren too. Thank you, ren, you're so sweet.

Speaker 2 28:33

And thank you everybody.

Speaker 1 28:35

Get this book, even if you don't play pickleball we hope you do, we hope you will but get this book anyway. If you're in any kind of relationship friends, partnerships, in business, at home the book will help you so much you have no idea. So thank you all and we look forward to a new conversation next week. Bye-bye.

Speaker 2 28:58

If you love our podcast, we'd be so grateful if you'd take a few seconds to follow or subscribe to Life Lessons from Pickleball. This ensures you'll never miss an episode and helps us continue these wonderful conversations.

Speaker 1 29:12

On Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever you listen, go to the show page and tap the follow button in the top right corner, and on YouTube, click the subscribe button under any of the episodes.

Speaker 2 29:25

Thanks, so much Hope to see you on the court.