Meeting Kate Spencer: Author & Pickleball Enthusiast

Speaker 1 0:00

Hi, I'm Shelly Maurer and I'm Cher Emrick. Welcome to Life.

Speaker 2 0:04

Lessons from Pickleball where we engage with pickleball players from around the world about life on and off the court.

Speaker 1 0:12

Thanks for joining us. Welcome everyone to Life. Lessons from Pickleball oh my gosh. Today we are so excited to welcome as our guest bestselling author Kate Spencer. Kate, you have written some incredible books, including the bestselling novel In a New York Minute and One Last Summer and your powerful memoir, the Dead Moms Club such an amazing book. And you are also one of the former voices behind the award-winning podcast Forever 35. You are a Costco lover and a one-time celebrity interviewer at VH1 News.

Speaker 3 0:54

All true, all those things are true, especially the Costco.

Speaker 2 0:58

Well, you'll be happy to know, we're located in Washington State.

Speaker 3 1:02

Oh my gosh, I saw that and I was listening to an interview you did with somebody from Kirkland, washington, and I almost keeled over because obviously that's where Costco was founded and obviously Pickleball being founded in Washington State. It just felt all very simpatico.

Speaker 2 1:19

I was very excited, yes, and we love that your next rom-com, all's Fair in Love and Pickleball, is your steamiest romance ever.

Speaker 3 1:30

It's pretty steamy. Just you know, red flag warning. My first book is not. My second book is maybe a little bit, but this one I kind of got to have fun with the sexiness levels because pickleball is sexy and I think we need to lean into that, you know there you go it's also complete with fake dating.

Speaker 2 1:53

Yes, grumpy, sunshine vibes and a fabulous cast of characters and. I'm so excited that it's coming out in June.

Speaker 3 2:13

I've already ordered my copy. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. I'm so excited that it's coming out in June. I've already ordered my copy forced or not real in any way because that is such an important part of it for me. So I'm almost I'm most nervous for people who understand and play pickleball to read it. To be honest with you.

Speaker 1 2:31

Well, you're an incredible writer, so I have no doubt the authenticity will come through my book.

Speaker 2 2:37

I know I started reading and, just as an aside, I started reading in the New York Minute this morning and it was 1130 and I was still in my pajamas reading.

Speaker 3 2:45

Oh, I love to hear that that's such a good morning.

Speaker 2 2:47

Get ready for the podcast. You're such a good writer. It's just so good.

Speaker 1 2:52

Such a great writer and gosh. We got so much to cover, but go ahead and start with. How did you first get introduced to Pickleball?

Kate's Introduction to Pickleball

Speaker 3 3:00

So in 2021, I am married with two daughters and that summer was still kind of heavy COVID times. My husband was on a shoot in Atlanta for the summer and I hadn't seen my family in New Hampshire for the whole extent of kind of the COVID lockdown time. And so my daughters and I went to New Hampshire we always go to New Hampshire for the summer to visit family but we went for about six weeks and lived with my dad and my dad is retired and in the last few years he has gotten so into pickleball and so you know, I spent about a month living with him at his house and working from there while my kids were going to camp and he was playing pickleball, you know, three to four times a week for a few hours a day and I kind of my family our love language is definitely kind of teasing and ribbing each other, so I would tease him about pickleball. And then about a year went by and I was really craving social interaction. I was so lonely and I felt so cut off. As a writer and formerly as a podcaster, I work alone and obviously the pandemic had been such an isolating experience and I just was feeling so down and kind of craving to move my body and I was like you know what? My dad was still playing pickleball. I was like this might be fun. Maybe my dad is always right and I should learn pickleball. And so I reached out to some friends who live near me and randomly, a friend of mine who plays tennis at the public courts here where I live had run into the people playing pickleball and had gotten their business card. And I reached out to them and they referred me to my pickleball coach, who's fantastic, and we got a group together and started taking lessons and maybe, like August, september, 2022. And I just it just clicked as something I immediately loved.

Speaker 3 5:04

I loved the challenge of learning something new. I don't come from any racket sport background. I've never identified as a particularly athletic person, though I'm trying to learn to let those like titles that we've or, like you know, ideas we've had about ourselves. I'm trying to learn to let those go. Um, but I, just I was just became obsessed with it.

Speaker 3 5:27

I loved that when I was learning pickleball, I wasn't thinking about anything else. I wasn't on my phone. Uh, I was able to. I was only able to think about pickleball for 90 minutes every Tuesday morning and I got to be with people like that was the fun of it. Um, there was a woman who used to come in every morning. Uh, you know, cause there were two courts on this one tennis court there were two pickleball courts and she would come in and she just, every day she would go, it's a great day for pickleball and I feel like that kind of captures the optimistic vibe of the pickleball culture. It just, it just was what I needed at a time where things were kind of tough everywhere else in my life and I've been learning ever since.

Speaker 2 6:10

You know the way I first found you, kate, was you wrote that really funny article for the LA Times yes, about pickleball, and I just thought what your story about your Apple Watch was so funny. Can you share that? Yes, so I.

Speaker 3 6:26

I wrote a piece for the LA times and I you know I forget exactly the title, but it was about how playing pickleball kind of got me, um, how it? How it kind of related to my relationship to my body and the way I've always kind of hyper-focused on you know, how many steps am I getting? Or, like, am I tracking these 90 minutes? And I'm playing pickleball? And I really started to.

Speaker 3 6:50

It was just another way that I think learning and playing pickleball allowed me to let go of something that I had previously kind of been attached to and just focus on the game, right, like, not just focus on the joy of the game, not focusing on, like, oh my gosh, how you know, am I tracking this pickleball workout?

Speaker 3 7:12

I just I tend to get a little hung up on those things and I really let that go. And it also really has been a space for me to learn so much about myself in terms of failing perfectionism, being hard on myself, you know, fear of not being good at something, of being a beginner, like. It's just been such a space to really discover these things and to be vulnerable in a way. You know, I think there's a vulnerability to learning anything, um, at any age, but especially when you're in your you know, I'm in my mid forties, um, especially when you're a little bit older, like I think, it does require a little bit more uh, vulnerability and so, um, that's really kind of what it's it's been for me, in addition to just like a lot of fun and I get to be I lean into my new competitive side and want to destroy everybody on the court. It's also fun.

Speaker 1 8:10

In fact, we were just talking right before the show about how, when we're playing with somebody for the very first time and not playing as well as we know we can, we're so embarrassed and we make all these excuses and say, oh, but I'm really better than that and to be vulnerable like that and just say, yeah, here to have a good time. That's so important and character building.

Embracing Vulnerability as a Beginner

Speaker 3 8:32

Truly, and you know I, my personality is really um, I don't like to be bad at stuff, I don't like to upset other people, and so having to play with a partner you know, if I was playing on my own, it would be one thing to play with a partner. You know, if I was playing on my own, it would be one thing. But playing with a partner I have such anxiety about, like, if I'm not playing well, are they going to be mad at me? And learning to not apologize for my playing has been a real uh, like letting go experience that I'm still working on, and it's been really interesting and involved way more like self-examination than I ever thought was going to involve.

Speaker 1 9:10

I know you wouldn't expect a little game like this to be so transformative.

Speaker 3 9:15

It's like therapy. It's truly has been a journey.

Speaker 2 9:18

It is it is yeah, and like you said that, your new book you've said All's Fair in Love and Pickleball is your most personal novel. Can you give us a little synopsis of?

Speaker 3 9:29

the story in a kind of California, southern California, desert retiree community after losing her mom to cancer, which was my own personal experience and the kind of pressure she and also passion she feels to continue this legacy of maintaining this community and this space that meant so much to her mom but also means so much to her. But of course, she's dealing with repair issues and financial issues and falls into a situation where she ends up teaming up with this grumpy tennis pro who's trying to heal from an injury. He's also trying to improve his reputation and get back out on the pro circuit and so the two of them kind of stumble into this scheme where they are both pretending to be a couple who's dating and also partners on the pickleball court at a local tournament where they can try to not just win the cash prize but also win back some notoriety and fame. And there's a delightful cast of characters of like retirees in the community and it just Bex also is a person with ADHD, which is something that I have, and it ended up.

Speaker 3 10:51

It was funny because, you know, the initial idea was like, just like pickleball romance tennis player, pickleball player because that rivalry is so fun amongst the two communities and then, as as I started writing fun amongst the two communities and then as I started writing, it just became a bit more personal in that way, and just having a character who's lost their mom to cancer was not something I ever expected to write and it just kind of came out. Writing is such a weird experience. It just kind of you go in with a lot of ideas but also then things just kind of reveal themselves as the process moves forward. So it um, it ended up being really uh special for me to get to write this book and also just get to write about pickleball, which was really fun and I'm fascinated that.

Speaker 1 11:38

So you wrote the dead mom's club, which was such a powerful memoir and and inspiring. Which was such a powerful memoir and inspiring it's got everything in it right, the whole journey. And then you write this one that's funny and uses a lot of who you are in it, was it? I'm sure your first book, dead Moms Club, was cathartic, was it not?

Speaker 3 12:03

It was yes, I don't ever want to do it again, but it was certainly very cathartic, was it not? It was yes, I don't want to do it again, um, but it was certainly uh, very cathartic yeah, and how about this one?

Speaker 1 12:11

this one.

All's Fair in Love and Pickleball

Speaker 3 12:13

No, I was. You know, I think I was because it's fiction and I wasn't writing about my own. Even even though I was writing, I was writing from a place of kind of perspective and, um, understanding about what it's like to be a caregiver, especially as an adult, to somebody. It didn't kind of hit me. In the same way, I did find it challenging in the way that I find writing challenging of having to figure out the story and like why are these two people together and why do they want to stay together and all that stuff. I wish it were easier, but it can be hard in the moment. So that was challenging, but I think, luckily no, even though I could relate. I think because she's a creative person. It gives me a little bit of distance.

Speaker 1 13:08

Yeah.

Speaker 3 13:09

Whereas writing a memoir about my own life just felt like, you know, like walking around naked in the school cafeteria Frightening, yes, terrifying, terrifying.

Speaker 2 13:20

Well, what was it like blending romance and pickleball? Did those two naturally go together for you, or was it an accident?

Speaker 3 13:28

No, it was. You know it was so funny. It came about because my literary agent, who's a friend of mine, was just kind of like you know, someone should write a pickleball romance, like, and I immediately was like, yes, do you think anyone would want a pickleball romance? Like, in, romance is such a massive, um, amazing space with so many different kinds of books and sports romance is its own thing. But I hadn't seen any pickleball romances and I was like, do you think anybody will want it? And luckily my editor, who I was working with and working with on this book, was on board. So it's, you know it is. It has been really fun.

Speaker 3 14:09

Like there are there's a scene where Bex is kind of teaching Nico the ins and outs of pickleball and everything she's saying, because they kind of have this chemistry and sexual tension, everything she's saying sounds like sexual innuendo, even though it's she's just instructing him on like, you know how to have a deep, you know, hit the ball deep when you like, return the serve, and. And so there was there was a lot of fun stuff to play with with pickleball that I, um, I really got a kick out of doing. Uh, and you know, I don't think people think of pickleball as a is essentially a sexy sport, but I I feel like I want to be here to change people's minds about this. I think not only is it so, it is it accessible for people of all ages, which I think is very like, exciting to me. There are a lot of very like. There's some chemistry on the like.

Speaker 3 15:05

It is fun to get out there and be spicy with people, whether it's competitive, chemistry or romantic. You know, I know it was. It was. It's a blast. I love getting to incorporate pickleball into the book. It was thrilling.

Speaker 1 15:17

It's so cool and you really get to know who a person is when you meet them and play with them on the court. Oh my gosh, right, right People really reveal themselves.

Speaker 3 15:30

It is fascinating actually Like. I think this is such an interesting part of this sport and one that maybe gets overshadowed because it's got a silly name, so people don't realize how you know how strategic it is and challenging it is and also how competitive it can be.

Speaker 1 15:49

Absolutely. It's an easy game to step into.

Speaker 3 16:06

You feel pretty successful pretty quickly but really hard to master. Studied tennis in writing this book because I was dealing with a tennis player character but otherwise, like, I don't really know anything about tennis. So I, as a pickleball player like love learning the kind of nitty gritty specifics of pickleball and I get very kind of like grumpy if people come in and start playing, you know, like a fast tennis inspired pickleball game I like to be, I like to dork out right at the kitchen line and just that's where my brain is excited right now in my learning experience.

Speaker 1 16:40

That's awesome. Yeah, we call it baby tennis.

Speaker 3 16:42

Yeah, baby tennis, that's it which in you know I need to also, you know, accept that that is. You know, that is where some people are coming from. But I feel very lucky that I just came in and learned pickleball with a pickleball coach and I enjoy the kind of like nitty gritty learning.

Speaker 2 17:04

Yeah, I'm with you, kate. I didn't have a tennis background either and I'm really enjoying that. I'm at the point now that we're getting frustrated that I don't have the feel for the court, naturally, like the tennis players do, that I'm really working now on where I should be and not moving quick enough, so but I'll get there, you will, and that's what's so great too.

Speaker 3 17:24

There's so much like room to learn. That's what's kind of also exciting about it for me. Yeah, so so much yeah.

Speaker 1 17:32

I did have some tennis background not serious but I've had to unlearn a lot and I'm still not great about being a partner. I guess I always played singles when I played tennis, so I'm still learning how to be a good partner on the court instead of smashing into them while I'm going for their ball instead of.

Speaker 3 17:50

Oh, I know, I know, but then you also don't want to let a ball go down the middle and not reach for it.

Speaker 1 17:54

Yeah, you don't want to miss the opportunity. No, it's all a dance. What is your writing process? Do you have to sit down and spend a certain number of hours every day, or it just the characters talk to you, or what's your process?

Speaker 3 18:13

I am, uh, unfortunately I have no great consistent process Um, for every season of life that I'm in. I'm a parent, but my daughters are now 12 and 14. So that makes it easier than when they were like six and four. Um, I I think giving what helps me is giving myself quiet time to think. I think sometimes I get in my head and I'm like I need to be in front of the computer typing away for two hours a day and actually I think I do my best writing when I am walking my dogs or going for a hike or in the grocery store playing pickleball, like having having other things um, where your brain can kind of run. Other times when your brain can kind of run is, yeah, to me is really a vital part of the process of writing.

Speaker 3 19:04

Um, I don't write every day. Right now I'm I'm kind of brainstorming new ideas for stuff I'd like to write, but I'm also currently cleaning out my office and working on book promotion, which I have to give myself permission to not write sometimes and just to let it be okay for other things to take the focus. You bet, in terms of like how a book gets kind of made, I am finding that I do better if I have an outline to follow. This has been a learning experience. I have written without outlines, um, but that kind of is like. It's like going for a hike without a map.

Speaker 3 19:48

You know, like you and you kind of know where you're going and then halfway through the hike you're like, oh, I'm stuck on this mountain and I don't know how to get down. So even if you have a very basic map I'm not a very detailed outlining person, but I think just a basic map of kind of where you want to go and then trusting that you know things might change, but that has. That has helped me and that's kind of how I approached All's Fair in Love, and Pickleball was with a loose outline.

Speaker 1 20:15

Do you approach Pickleball the same way when you step on the court? Do you have strategy in mind? Oh my gosh, besides getting it over the net and inside the lines?

Speaker 3 20:24

I am starting to learn how to try to think strategically more Good for you, which is really fun and also challenging, although you know so I play every week with the same group of people, so I know them. Recently, I joined a league for six weeks and this is now. My intention for this year is to really push myself to get out and play in many more places. As I mentioned, I'm a little timid, so this has been what I've been focused on. But playing against new people, you know you have to think of the strategy like the strategy has to come in the moment without even thinking about it, and so that has been really hard but also exhilarating, like when you get it right. Like when you get it, you know you hit something right to their backhand and they can't get it and you're just like yes, I did it.

Speaker 3 21:15

Yes, I'm actually meant to do. You know, a lot of times it's just luck and I didn't mean to do it. But when you mean to do it and it works, that's like a miracle. It feels so exciting.

Life Lessons from the Court

Speaker 1 21:28

Oh my gosh. So in all of your adventures writing, playing what life lessons have you learned, either on the court that you're using in life, or lessons that you learned in life that you're using on the court?

Speaker 3 21:44

The biggest one I have learned in my. How many years have I been playing pickle? Now Three, you know.

Speaker 3 21:50

My coach said to me recently he was like you're really kind to everybody else, like I love to. I'm a real team player and I love cheering other people's um, you know shots on and everything. But he basically made the point of like are you kind to yourself Because I'm really hard on myself. And he also pointed out like I never pay attention when I do something right, but when I do something wrong I am very focused on it. And I had like, actually I had one day where, like after he kind of said this and he's so kind and so wise and he said this and I like went, got in my car and just kind of cried because it was like, oh, this has been something I've been like. I've been like this my whole life. I've been so hard on myself my whole life, but I've never also been easy on myself, you know, and on the flip side, and that was like that was real eye opening. And another thing I'm working on while playing is not apologizing.

Speaker 3 22:55

So I find, especially when I started, I would say sorry for everything. Sorry my serve was bad, sorry if I hit into the net, sorry if I did something terrible, sorry my serve was bad, sorry if I hit into the net, sorry if I did something terrible. And there's another woman who plays after me and recently she was like you can never apologize. She's like let it go. And I have kind of tried to take that to heart and even if I think it in my head, I try to keep it to myself and just accept the fact that, like, not everything is perfect. Most of the time it's not, and that's how it is for everybody. I'm not the only one out there having a bad serve. Those have been huge takeaways for me from playing. That has trickled out into my writing, into my parenting, into just how I think about myself and how I am in the world. And that's why I'm such a cheerleader for pickleball, because it feels so impactful on so many levels.

Speaker 3 23:51

It's not just a good workout, even though it's great. I love it, Great cardiovascular sweating all the time but it's just had such a positive impact emotionally, mentally too.

Speaker 1 24:03

Yeah, like we were saying we get to know other people when they're on the court, were saying we get to know other people by when they're on the court, while we get to know ourselves when we're on the court too.

Speaker 3 24:10

Yeah, that's so true, that's so beautiful.

Speaker 1 24:12

You really do, you really do, and there's no sorry in pickleball.

Speaker 3 24:17

That is what I have. I have to repeat that mantra to myself over and over again. Especially when I'm playing with people who you know I'm trying to get out and go to like some open play at a level that's probably like slightly better than I should be at, and I know I'm going to be wanting to apologize and say sorry, so I have. I'm going to remember you saying this when I, when I go there?

Speaker 2 24:42

Yes, cause that's exactly what we need to do to get better is what you're doing, yes.

Speaker 3 24:45

Yes, because that's exactly what we need to do to get better. Is what you're doing? Yeah, yes, it's so true. And that's the hardest part, because I did the same thing. I think, cher, you were saying when you're playing with people who are new, I went and played in a beginner group because in my brain I was like I'm not good and I was better than everybody, but I was playing the worst I've ever played in my life and I was like what have I done? Why did I do this? So, yeah, pushing yourself to kind of get out there like that is scary, but I think it is rewarding.

Speaker 2 25:14

It is, it is rewarding. Those were great life lessons. Those are great.

Speaker 3 25:21

I mean, that's what's been so meaningful to me about Higgle Balls. Like I really do feel like I've learned so much and it's such a gift. That's why I'm such an ambassador about it. I'm like everybody get on board. So much fun and you're going to have all these revelations about yourself. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 25:39

Yeah, Shelly, you get a fun thing for us.

Speaker 2 25:41

Yeah, so one thing we didn't mention is Kate is also a comedian.

Speaker 3 25:45

Yes, not performing anymore, but I am an entrained improv. I've trained improv comedy and was a teacher and yes, performer. All right Comedy comes into almost everything I do still.

Pickleball Lightning Round with Kate

Speaker 2 26:01

Great. So we thought we'd do a quick little pickleball lightning round just to highlight this improv. So just say the first thing that comes to your mind, okay, first favorite pickleball term.

Speaker 3 26:16

Oh my gosh. I mean I feel like dink is so classic, but it's just so absurd. And from a romance pervy point of view, it just it can be interchanged with things in such a fun way that I really enjoy it. So I mean, obviously I've 99% of people are going to say dink, but I feel like it's earned.

Speaker 1 26:36

There's a reason, it's cliche.

Speaker 3 26:40

Four letters, but it says so much, you know.

Speaker 2 26:43

Okay, your dream celebrity doubles partner.

Speaker 3 26:47

Oh my goodness, oh my goodness, oh my goodness. You know, my brain is like trying to go to celebrities who already who I know already play pickleball, which is not the right answer.

Speaker 1 26:57

Oh, it can be.

Speaker 3 26:59

You know, oh my gosh Sorry, this is stumping me my dream celebrity pickleball player, Adam Sandler. He seems so. He is such a basketball fan and he, I actually feel like, embodies a lot of what pickleball is Like. He doesn't care about how he dresses, he seems very comfortable in his own skin. I think he would be a lot of fun to play with, but also very good at like um trash talking and very competitive.

Speaker 3 27:31

Uh, I just I know he's like a huge basketball person and player and I feel like that kind of vibe would translate very well to pickleball. I would love to watch that one. Yeah, it'd be fun.

Speaker 1 27:45

Okay, one character from any of your books that you'd love to take to open play, and why?

Speaker 3 27:51

Oh my gosh, okay, I have. There's this like wonderful group of 70-ish year olds in All's Fair and Love and Pickleball and Loretta, deb, Maureen and Ed these four people who are they're kind of Bex, who's like in her 20s it's her main friend group but they're also like ruthless, amazing pickleball players and this is something that I've experienced playing against like 80-year-olds who are so good and I just feel that has been the most fun for me is kind of getting to be with people of other ages. So I would like get that crew together because I also feel like they would be good at like hustling, you know like kind of coming in I forget what the term is, but like Loretta especially, she's a ringer but would underplay it and then you get on the court with her and she's like a 4.0 and people would under.

Speaker 3 28:42

I think people underestimate people because of their age and what I have learned is that age is literally just a number when it comes to pickleball Right. So that crew, I would round them up. They're fun, they like to have a little bit of wine, and I'd go with them.

Speaker 2 28:57

Okay, last one. If pickleball had a theme song, what would it be?

Speaker 3 29:03

I need to really think about this and select this carefully it's an important question, it is so the first song that came to my mind was celebrate. You know like celebrate?

Speaker 3 29:14

good times come on, oh, that's a good one. For me, pickleball is like inherently fun, yeah, uh, and that is what. And even I know I'm sure if I was a pro playing like there would be some sort of more like hardcore rock song that would, you know, capture the vibe of what it's like to compete professionally. But for me it's I try to lean into. This is fun. At the end of the day, this is just pickleball, it's just a game and like like fun is something that I feel like is so seriously lacking fun and community. So that song to me I just my brain just went there is like the celebratory aspect of getting to be with people, play this fun game, hopefully be outside, depending on your community, but wherever you are, you're with people and you're doing this list like wonderful thing, and so I'm going with celebrate.

Speaker 1 30:03

I forget who sings that. I think it's the perfect song, oh thank you. Perfect song. In fact, we had Clay Roberts on our show. He's Mr Pickleball here in Washington. He's the one who made it the official sport and he's keeping the spirit of pickleball alive. And you're supposed to start every new match with the first server says so. Are we ready to have fun? That's it. I love that Really.

Speaker 3 30:32

That sets the whole tone. Yep, so that's what we're doing now. I love that so much, and I also just love that as a mantra for anything, because you know, I just we get so self-serious, or I mean I'm speaking for myself, but yeah, me too.

Speaker 2 30:46

Yeah fun.

Speaker 3 30:47

That's such the point of it all. Good life mantra.

Speaker 1 30:50

Oh my gosh, kate, how fun to talk with you today. We could talk for hours and hours, but you have a book tour to prepare for You're, so nice and we want to encourage everyone to pre-order All's Fair in Love and Pickleball available in June. So how can people find you?

Speaker 3 31:08

You can find me on the internet. My website is katespencerwritescom. I'm on Instagram at Kate Spencer. You can also find information about my newsletter, which is on Substack, but there are links to it on both of those places and that's kind of the best way to read my kind of biweekly writing and catch up with what I'm doing. And I also, you know, try to post consistently on Instagram and hopefully I'll run into you on a court in Southern California.

Speaker 1 31:38

We look forward to it Definitely do. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for being on the show this was such a delight.

Speaker 3 31:45

I'm so, so glad to get to talk to you about this my favorite thing, so thank you so much for having me Right before we started the show, shelly and I were saying aren't we lucky to be able to talk to people like Kate Spencer? Yes, Well, likewise the feeling is mutual.

Speaker 1 31:59

Thank you and thank you all. Oh my gosh. Thank you for tuning in today everyone you and thank you all. Oh my gosh. Thank you for tuning in today everyone and again, All's Fair in Love and Pickleball, available in June, and all of her other books. She is a phenomenal writer and we look forward to a new conversation next week. Bye-bye.

Speaker 2 32:17

Bye everyone. If you love our podcast, we'd be so grateful if you'd take a few seconds to follow or subscribe to Life Lessons from Pickleball. This ensures you'll never miss an episode and helps us continue these wonderful conversations.

Speaker 1 32:32

On Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever you listen, go to the show page and tap the follow button in the top right corner, and on YouTube, click the subscribe button under any of the episodes.

Speaker 2 32:45

Thanks, so much. Hope button under any of the episodes. Thanks, so much. Hope to see you on the court.