Speaker 1: 0:00

Hi, I'm Shelly Maurer and I'm Cher Emrick. Welcome to Life.

Speaker 2: 0:04

Lessons from Pickleball where we engage with pickleball players from around the world about life on and off the court.

Speaker 1: 0:12

Thanks for joining us. Welcome everyone. We are so glad you've joined us and, for those of you who are watching on Facebook, we just want you to know that Shelly's neck brace is not because of a pickleball injury. She had a very serious hiking in the mountains in Switzerland fall, but she is recovering really well. And, shelly, as we say each time, we're so glad you're here. Thanks, me too, and we're really glad to have as our guest today Dr John Gallucci Jr, better known as Dr JAG John. You are president and CEO of JAG Physical Therapy. You're leading more than 170 clinics across the Northeast and helping athletes, especially pickleball players.

Speaker 2: 1:01

Yay, stay on the court, you're a dual licensed physical therapist and athletic trainer with 30 plus years of experience, and the voice behind your latest book pickleball, pickleball, pickleball don't get hurt.

Speaker 1: 1:17

Packed with injury prevention tips, warm-ups and real stories from the court, and you're also a genuine fan of the game and we heard you even gifted your business team pickleball paddle sets. That is so cool. I did, I did. You are the recovery expert keeping us dinking strong.

Speaker 2: 1:36

John, let's start at the beginning. What first drew you to physical therapy?

Speaker 3: 1:41

So physical therapy is interesting.

Speaker 3: 1:43

My mom and dad, when I was very young, owned a surgical supply business in Brooklyn, New York, and we used to deliver and produce supplies for physical therapists in the catchment area of my parents' business.

Speaker 3: 1:58

And at 12, 13 years old I fell in love with what a physical therapist had done with patients and working with them to attain their goals from injury or illness. And ultimately, as my mom, who's passed two years, used to say, I became a physical therapist for three reasons. The first reason was so I could wear sneakers to work every day. The second reason was so I can wear a golf shirt or a tennis shirt and didn't have to wear a tie and jacket. And the third reason was so I could be, so I could help people each and every day accomplish their goals and get them back to whatever they want Let it be the pickleball court, back to work, if you happen to use your body for work. So I've been very blessed over the last 30 plus years working in every level of athletics professional sports, college sports, high school sports, club sports and I even I'm very fortunate that I get to work with lay people as well that are not in sports but treat everybody as they're an athlete and kind of push them to reach their goals.

Speaker 1: 3:00

Wow, I love your standard. That's so cool to have the shoes and the clothes to suit your personality, and I think that's the best.

Speaker 3: 3:12

Mom never thought I was a tie and jacket guy.

Speaker 1: 3:17

You're too down to earth.

Speaker 3: 3:19

I try, I'm trying. So, when did Pickleball come on your radar?

Speaker 1: 3:22

I'm trying. So when did pickleball come on your radar?

Speaker 3: 3:26

So probably about three and a half four years ago I had the opportunity. I was visiting a cousin and we had a whole bunch of friends in our community playing. But I was visiting my cousin and I had some time and I said, hey, you play pickleball, teach me a little bit about the game. And it's got to be four years now that I consistently play every Thursday night. I'm fortunate enough to belong to a small club here in New Jersey and I'm having a great time, and then in Florida when I visit my cousin, we play down there.

Speaker 3: 3:55

My wife is now playing as well. She's playing for about two years. We're in a couples program on Thursdays. We have a great time and we're enjoying it. We're enjoying it not just for the fitness but for the socialization, for the engagement. We were both racquet sports players. Before. She was a tennis player, I was a racquetball squash player and I was also I'm a big, big ping pong fan. So I think pickleball just happened to be the next thing and it's amazing. I mean every generation is playing it. Now there's so much opportunity for exercise, engagement, socialization. I think it's really bringing people together to keep moving, which is very important every day, and staying healthy and having social, psychosocial component of it as well.

Speaker 2: 4:48

Yeah, for sure. And you know, because of all the things you just said, it's all our goals to just keep playing that game. So we don't want any injuries, right, we want to be able to keep showing up on the court. So could you kind of go over some of the most common injuries that you're seeing and what are some prevention tips we can do?

Speaker 3: 5:07

Absolutely so. Most people think that physical therapists are just there to treat injuries and illness. What they don't realize is we know how to prevent them. We know how to prevent them teaching people biomechanics, teaching people appropriate movement, teaching people how to strengthen, especially in a racket sport, their lower extremities, their legs and their core, which is very important. So when we talk about the most common injuries, we see our lower extremity injuries ankles, hamstrings, knees, hips, caps, achilles. Those are the most common ones we're seeing.

Speaker 3: 5:43

Because most people think it's a smaller court. There's no movement in a diagonal motion, a pivot motion, a rotational motion, and people aren't prepared for the rigors of the sport. So I try to teach people each and every day. That's why I came up with my book, because I can only reach so many people in my office and reach so many people in the catchment area we touch. But this is my third prevention book. The first two one was on soccer, one was on baseball and softball, and I said all these people are coming to the office, why do they want to be on my table when they could be on the court? So I had to come up with something simple, easy to read, very layperson oriented. It's not a big medical book. It's a very laid back, easy read book, trying to keep you on the court and off of my tables and my colleagues tables, and it's simple things. It's simple things like prepare for the activity.

Speaker 3: 6:37

Do you know how many people just get out of the car from their office? They sit all day in their office. They drive 20 minutes, 30 minutes. Then they get out of the car and they just start playing. No warmup, no stretching, no hydration, drinking coffee all day, which is dehydrating. Then, of course, we know a few of our adult friends like to have adult beverages while they're participating. Most people don't understand adult beverages are dehydrating as well. So we talk about a lot of different ways to prevent injuries in the book. A large portion of it is being prepared for the sport being hydrated, make sure you have appropriate nutrition and, most important, how to prevent certain injuries, like your lower extremity injuries. Most people don't realize that simple warmup and flexibility stops those muscle strains. Appropriate hydration and eating habits and sleep habits decrease strains. So it's really teaching everything we know. We all learned this in fourth grade and fifth grade in our physical education classes, but we may have forgotten it Now. It's just bringing it back and enjoying the games and the rigor of the game.

Speaker 1: 7:51

So what would be? Would a five minute warmup before a game be enough?

Speaker 3: 7:57

I love that question. That's an awesome question, thank you. You're about to participate and most of us are playing pickleball anywhere between an hour to two hours when we participate.

Speaker 3: 8:12

We definitely have those that are excessive, playing three, four hours where you see most of your injuries because of fatigue factors. But ultimately, I tell everybody, it's not about the minutes, it's about is your body warmed up? And the easiest way is did you break a sweat? So it's important that, so you know, my wife can run around for two minutes, three minutes, and she starts to break a sweat. She'll do some simple jumps, some simple skips, jog around the court a couple of times, back, pedal forward, and she'll start to break a sweat. Me, I exercise every day, I'm involved every day. It takes me about seven minutes to really get breaking the sweat. So I tell people, it's not about the time, it's about really warming up the body and the entire body. And then flexibility. It's important before participation, some ballistic stretching, sort of like the movement of the game rotation, back, pedal, high legs. You know it's not so much static stretching before you participate, but then after you participate, it's good to cool down and do some static stretching afterwards.

Speaker 1: 9:22

That's something I never do, I never, do that.

Speaker 2: 9:26

Do you, Shelly? You know I did in the very beginning. We have a wonderful person here in Kirkland that taught a lot of our friends how to play pickleball, and Madeline had a warm up in the very beginning, but I've let it go and no, I don't, which is bad. So in your book, do you lay out a warm up for us?

Speaker 3: 9:46

We've got a whole warm up in the book ready to go. We got people ready to go. But the most important thing is listen time. But we're talking about pickleball. It's all about dedicating to the time to prepare, to participate and to cool down after participation and get that flexibility. You can't believe how many injuries in all sports are decreased because of appropriate warmup, appropriate nutrition, appropriate sleep and appropriate hydration. If we all followed those and they're all in the book and we look at those simple steps of what to do, a perfect example. We all go to work, we're all working, we're all adults.

Speaker 3: 10:35

How many of us really put in the focus to have at least six to eight, eight ounces of fluid, non-caffeinated fluids, fluid into our body? That's just normal, everyday human life. Hydration helps lubricate joints, helps our organs function correctly. How many people out there really take a focus to say, oh, I got to have my six to eight glasses of six to eight ounces of water a day. Now put the participation. You're playing an hour. If we know that research shows us at high school, collegiate professional sports that every 15 to 20 minutes of participation you need another six to eight ounces of fluid in your body, that simple component is going to decrease the simplicity of muscle strength, and we all learned this again in grade school. We all know how much percentage of our body is made up of water and how our body functions based on hydration. So why don't we focus on those simple factors and stay on the court, as opposed to me and my colleagues' physical therapy tables, so say?

Speaker 1: 11:51

that again. I'm sorry, shelly, I just want you to say that again, if you would how much water per minutes of play?

Speaker 3: 11:58

So usually recommendation on research is if you're playing 20 minutes and you're sweating and participating in a good rigor, you should have six to eight ounces of fluid. Again, I'm not picking the fluid, but let's face it. Adult beverage alcohol no good. Caffeine no good, because it dehydrates you. So it's important Sports drinks I prefer low sugar sports drinks or no sugar, sports drinks and listen, we're very fortunate the earth and God has given us water. Why? Not consume the easy thing, Get some water in you.

Speaker 3: 12:37

I have a wife who hates drinking water, but now she's learned different things. She has one of these nutritional packs that have potassium in it. She likes the flavor. She just doesn't like drinking plain water. Sometimes she'll do lemon water or orange or some sort of slice. She loves watermelon water. We have to hydrate. It's the most important thing, especially in the participation of sports.

Speaker 2: 13:06

Wow, I'm really failing, because what you? I just heard you say, you know, when I play an hour and a half to two hours of pickleball, I need to drink four to six more eight ounce glasses of water on top of the six to eight. I don't already drink.

Speaker 3: 13:21

Well, think about it. I mean again, if we took the average human being. They wake up in the morning. The first thing they digest is caffeinated something. So you lose one to two pounds of water weight with sleep, if you're getting appropriate sleep. So you're already dehydrated from sleep, and then the first thing we do is throw caffeine in, which increases your heart rate, makes your body work a little quicker, which everybody loves. Oh, I feel like it gives me a pep, but it's also dehydrating. So I tell everybody there's nothing wrong with having a cup of coffee, but it's important to have a glass of water when you wake up as well.

Speaker 2: 14:00

Nice.

Speaker 1: 14:01

So how does one know after what I? I do the. I do the pre pregame warmups, but what I haven't been doing is the after game cooldowns. So, but how does one know the difference between normal, possible, some soreness after a match and what is really the warning sign of injury?

Speaker 3: 14:26

Well, first of all, another awesome question. As a physical therapist and athletic trainer, I tell everybody, if you're having muscle soreness and you would have graded zero out of 10, 10 being horrible pain I got to run to the hospital, zero being no pain. If you see your pain scale between a two or three, it's okay to participate, as long as when you warm up in your participate it decreases a little bit, that's okay. But I also tell everybody, if you have pain of a four or five, it's important to see a certified athletic trainer, a physical therapist, just to see what's going on biomechanically, movement wise. And it's important if it's above a five, you need to see a certified athletic trainer, a physical therapist or a physician just to make sure that your rigors of the sport aren't going to cause more of a problem.

Speaker 3: 15:25

And you'd be surprised how many men and women were playing with what we call tendonitis or tenosynovitis in their Achilles and they were playing for two to three weeks and they were fighting through that five, six out of 10 pain and then all of a sudden they popped their Achilles and now you got to hang out with me. First you got to go for surgery and then you're going to hang out with me for close to five months to get you back on the court and playing. So if you would have, just in the beginning, step back a little bit, got some rest, got some treatment, you probably would have never, ever popped your Achilles. But people think they could play through the pain. It's important to understand the grading of the pain.

Speaker 1: 16:09

That's really important and we have a number of friends who would be wise to have heeded that advice. And they've actually helped us think about it. So one of the injuries that has happened while we're playing is running backwards instead of angled run, so that you're not falling backwards. But are there certain pickleball injuries that you've noticed that are very different from your? You address so many different sports, athletes with different sports. Are there certain pickleball injuries that are unique to the game or they're common in most sports?

Speaker 3: 16:49

fortunate opportunity to work in the NHL, the NBA, major League Soccer and I've worked with athletes from every pro league you could possibly imagine, including International League. So I've been very fortunate in my career, which is why I try to give back and keep people engaged and involved. I would say you see very similar crossover to most racquet sports paddle, pickle, tennis, racquetball, squash. Of course, we see a less incident with ping pong Ping pong's more wrist, shoulder and elbow more than lower extremity. But when you look at racquet sports, you're seeing very, very common injuries in a crossover. What we are seeing a lot in pickleball is people are not prepared for the level of play that they're going to participate. So we're seeing an amazing amount of tendonitis and tendonitis is, if they're not cared for, turn into tears of the tendon. And again, if you take care of it appropriately like we've got programs throughout the tri-state area here in the Northeast that we do prevention of injury programs in all sports to teach people how to manage their tendonitis and if you teach them appropriately how to handle it, they stay on the court forever. But those people that try to drive through it again perfect example.

Speaker 3: 18:17

Everybody loves to get the tennis elbow brace. Everybody loves to go. We're going to go to the store. We're going to buy the brace. It's going to fix everything. Did you decrease the inflammation? Do you make sure you have enough range of motion? You know the brace may make you feel good when you're playing, but you didn't fix the problem Tendonitis that's causing the pain. That you're putting the brace means there's inflammation in the tendon. There's inflammation in the tendon. A bladder pressed against you with an ACE bandage or any type of adhesive is not going to get rid of the problem. It's important to treat the problem so this way, when you do do a backhand, you don't rupture the tendon. You can't believe how many simplistic tears we see every week in our clinics. It's unbelievable, my colleagues at Jack Physical Therapy. There's not a week going by we're not seeing torn tendons upper extremity and lower extremity in pickleball. It's amazing.

Speaker 1: 19:17

For those who don't know what tendonitis is, can you describe in the arm and in the leg what you're talking about?

Speaker 3: 19:24

Yeah, absolutely. It's an inflammation where you're getting a fluid buildup or swelling in the tendon. Most commonly in pickleball you see it in the Achilles tendon and the patella tendon.

Speaker 1: 19:37

What's that? What's a patella?

Speaker 3: 19:39

tendon. Patella tendon is the tendon right below your kneecap and the Achilles is the one right above your heel. Those are the two most common tendonitis. That you're saying and people are tearing In your elbow. It's your extensor tendon which sits right here.

Speaker 1: 19:59

Right above the elbow.

Speaker 3: 20:00

Yep right below the elbow. And what you're getting is a lot of people getting inflammation trying to play through it with braces. They don't get rid of the inflammation and the tightness. It becomes brittle like a cold rubber band and eventually pops. I haven't used that rubber band story since I was in the NBA, but picture a rubber band getting cold outside, then freezing and then popping. The more fluid and swelling in that tendon, the more opportunity it has to pop.

Speaker 2: 20:36

Oh, okay, and what? Can you just tell us? What shoes? How important are the shoes that we're wearing out on the pickleball? I could hug you.

Speaker 3: 20:45

Shoes, shoes, shoes, pickleball, pickleball, pickleball. Don't get hurt. So one of the biggest reasons why I wrote it is I was going to the court and seeing everybody in running shoes and most people don't realize that running or training shoes have a lip around them. Court shoes do not. They're flat bottoms with no lips. People were breaking their ankles, tearing ligaments in their ankle by sidestepping and rolling on that lip. Remember, a running shoe is made to go forward. It's not made to cut. It's not made to go diagonal. It's made to push you forward and ultimately, the whole point of where the front of the shoe is built is to take the absorption and that's why you have that little wing component. In a court, when you're laterally motion, if you have the outside lip of the shoe, it's going to catch on the court and you're going to roll your ankle. I have a whole bunch of pieces of information on that. That's very important. Shoes are very, very important.

Speaker 3: 21:56

Also, most people don't understand the different weights of a racket. I use a little heavier racket than my wife. You have to be ready for the rigors of the sport. Some people who use too light a racket will swing through, could cause tendonitis of their shoulder. Some people like a lighter racket because it's easier for them to manipulate. Especially if you're playing over an hour, it's important to speak to your pro. The pros are great at talking about this. Do you know how many pros thank me that I put in the book about shoes? I mean, think about the simple thing that I put in the book. It's about shoes.

Speaker 1: 22:37

Is there a disadvantage to having a lighter racket?

Speaker 3: 22:39

Is there a disadvantage to having a lighter racket? There's no disadvantage, but men will sometimes overswing a lighter racket and cause again an overused component. Also, listen, I know people love the sport but two, three, four hours of something, four days a week isn't good enough for any of us. Right of something four days a week isn't good enough for any of us. It's just like when we tell youth athletes not to select one sport. Multi-direction is important. Overuse, you know. Injuries are very common in pickleball.

Speaker 2: 23:13

Well, so that's what I was going to ask you what would a typical week look like? How many hours should somebody play to not overuse, because I know I've been guilty of some weeks four and five times for two hours a day?

Speaker 3: 23:27

I think a participation four or five times a week is fine. It's really the duration. So if you're truly on the court for two hours straight playing, playing, playing, you're setting yourself up for overuse injuries, you're setting yourself up for overuse injuries, you're setting yourself up for dehydration injuries, you're setting yourself up for fatigue injuries and you don't want any of those injuries because you want to participate four or five times a week.

Speaker 1: 23:52

Yes, so it's a good thing that we have a community that loves to chat between games, and that's when we get our drink of water and just kind of rest a little bit and then get back on the court.

Speaker 3: 24:05

Very important, but if you find that you have downtime for 20 minutes in between games, it's important to warm up again and make sure you're ready for the rigors of the sport, oh, that's a good point, and you know it's sorry.

Speaker 2: 24:19

I was going to say that's a negative of the open play because they're so crowded here. Sometimes you do wait 20, 30 minutes and we just run right back out on the court. We don't warm up again, okay.

Speaker 1: 24:30

That's true, but I think you're raising a really important point too, because pickleball has always had kind of the attitude of it's a simple game and it is. I mean, it's simple to learn and simple to feel successful right at the start. But we don't tend to just be happy with that level, and so we do want to get better and better, better, and we forget what it does to our bodies as we pursue that goal of improving. So, gosh, john, you're just a wealth of information. So, in all of your experiences as a preventer of injuries and as an author and then being on the court, what are some life lessons you've learned, either in your life that you find yourself, life lessons that you find yourself using on the court, or lessons that whoa, that is a good life lesson that I just learned on the court. I'm going to use it in my life. Do you have some to share?

Speaker 3: 25:28

I think that's great. So one of the most important things that I tell everybody is movement is the most important part of life and the more you move, the healthier you are. And I think pickleball has opened up the door for many people to engage psychosocially, integrate fitness, integrate movement. So I think it's all very positive. It gets an aerobic factor. All very positive things. That's a huge life lesson. You know, my grandfather used to say tennis and golf are life sports, and life sports means you can do them from when you're an adolescent all the way up until you're above 70, 80 years old. And my grandfather used to say always learn a life sport. Pickleball has become a life sport. Everybody can engage in it and everybody is engaging in it and I think it's very, very important.

Speaker 3: 26:22

And I think when you look at racquetball, you look at tennis, tennis has a sunset over time based on the size of the court. I think pickleball has identified the smaller realm which could keep people engaged for years to come. I mean I love we have a group of 82 to 85 year old men and women that play right after us and they're amazing. But they're doing the preventative steps to do things, to stay on the court but, as we've learned overall lifespan, movement is the most important thing for the human body. It's good for lubrication of joints, it's good for strengthening, it's good for digestion, it's good for our mind.

Speaker 3: 27:05

So anything we can do to move, listen, not to make this no politics at all, but we need to re-engage our youth to understand the importance of fitness, exercise, nutrition and hydration. Any way we do that, it needs to get back into our grammar schools. It needs to start from pre-K, kindergarten, grammar school, high school. It needs to be a requirement that everybody learns nutrition, hydration, the importance of movement, the importance of exercise for the sustainability of our health. It decreases disease and again, I think pickleball has been amazing to now fight type 2 diabetes, obesity at all levels, and it's so easy to pick up and one thing we missed it's so cost effective and reasonable to play.

Speaker 1: 27:59

I mean, you know you can play anywhere.

Speaker 3: 28:00

There's courts popping up everywhere. They're reasonable to play. I mean, you know you can play anywhere. There's courts popping up everywhere. They're reasonable. To get on A pickleball paddle you can find inexpensive. And if you can't call me, I'll send you JAG paddles as soon as possible. You'll get a JAG physical therapy paddle and you'll have your own paddles for free. So you've got to get on the court and you've got to move.

Speaker 1: 28:21

I mean, that was just fantastic and I am 100% behind you on that. We've just lost that need for kids to be out and about and running and exercising and yeah, I love that message. And now Pickleball is worldwide and we are keenly aware of how it is really changing the world and people from all. Is your book Pickleball, Pickleball, Pickleball, Don't Get Hurt? Is it in multiple languages yet?

Speaker 3: 28:50

It is not. My soccer book is in multiple languages, but most publishers want to get it out first in English here in the United States and then they see the pickup Now, because we've had the history of my soccer book, my soccer book's actually in Spanish and Chinese, so we're very fortunate that it's in three different languages and our goal with Pickleball is to try to get it multiple languages.

Speaker 3: 29:16

But right now it's only available in English. It's available on amazoncom. Now it's only available in English, it's available on amazoncom. And the funny part is why is it pickleball, pickleball, pickleball. Don't get hurt is? I was shooting a radio commercial and the guy videotaping me we did about 12 commercials for Jack Physical Therapy and he goes you know you did nothing on pickleball and I said you mean pickleball, pickleball, pickleball, and all of a sudden that became the name of the book and it's the theme of our life to pickleball, pickleball, pickleball.

Speaker 1: 29:51

So how can people find you online?

Speaker 3: 29:54

The easiest way is Dr Jag PT on Instagram and that's D R J A G P T on Instagram. Of course, my LinkedIn is John Gallucci Jr, so jump on in there. I do a whole bunch of business tips as well on the LinkedIn component. So anybody, any entrepreneurs out there. My other book was an entrepreneurial book called the JAG Method. I wanted to take 18 to 30 year olds and give them something to read in 25 minutes or less, so ultimately we got that out there, trying to keep those kids moving in their minds as well. Everybody needs entrepreneurial success and the easiest way to get the book is Amazoncom and anybody ever has questions they can go to Dr Jag PT or they could go to info at jagptcom and just send a simple email.

Speaker 1: 30:42

Shelly. We are so lucky to talk to John, and how fun for our audience too. John, thank you, thank you, thank you. Pickleball, pickleball, pickleball. Don't get hurt. We love it. And thank you for all of the information you've given us and for your mission to keep us all well and happy.

Speaker 3: 31:01

Thank you. I appreciate both of you Appreciate being on the show today.

Speaker 1: 31:06

Thank you. Thank you all. Thank you all for tuning in and for all of the subscribers and for all the likes and shares. You definitely want to share this with anybody who is active in any way. It doesn't even have to be a sport for this book to be an important addition to the information that we use in life. So thank you all so much, and we look forward to a new conversation next week. Bye-bye.

Speaker 2: 31:32

Bye-bye. If you love our podcast, we'd be so grateful if you'd take a few seconds to follow or subscribe to Life Lessons from Pickleball. This ensures you'll never miss an episode and helps us continue these wonderful conversations.

Speaker 1: 31:47

On Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever you listen, go to the show page and tap the follow button in the top right corner, and on YouTube, click the subscribe button under any of the episodes.

Speaker 2: 32:00

Thanks, so much Hope to see you on the court.