SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Hi, I'm Shelly Miller. And I'm Cher Emmerich. Welcome to Life Lessons from Pickleball. Where we engage with pickleball players from around the world about life on and off the court. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_01: 0:15

Welcome everyone to Life Lessons from Pickleball. Oh, how nice it is to have you all with us today. And for those of you watching on YouTube, if you haven't seen the last few episodes, you might not know that Shelly has had a very serious mountain hiking accident in Switzerland that resulted in her wearing a neck brace. But we do hope that's coming off very soon. And Shelly, we're just thrilled that you have survived that fall and that you're with us. Thank you, me too. And we are really lucky to have with us today Dr. Lynn Yanni, who has a PhD and MFT. Lynn, you are a seasoned psychotherapist with more than 35 years of clinical experience. And you're going to talk to us about how, even casually, with friends and all, you can integrate sports psychology principles into our well-being and therapeutic work. But we'll get into that soon.

SPEAKER_03: 1:15

And Lynn, you work with individuals, couples, and families in an interactive style, focused on practical tools for everyday life.

SPEAKER_01: 1:24

So are you licensed in California and in Washington, is that right?

SPEAKER_05: 1:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 1:29

And so what led you into psychotherapy in the first place?

SPEAKER_05: 1:33

Oh my goodness, that's a really cool story. Once upon a time, I I interacted with a psychologist when I was in kindergarten who um who gave me some testing because my mom had taught me how to read pretty early and suggested that I skip a grade and I loved him and his family, would take me home and feed me. And I decided that I wanted to be a psychologist just like him when I was in second grade. I couldn't spell it. But I liked him and I liked what he did. And so I've always sort of been oriented that way. It's just sort of who my who I am, probably more than what I do.

SPEAKER_01: 2:05

That's pretty amazing. At that young age, you already had a North Star for what you wanted to do in life. That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_05: 2:12

It's it was great, it was a great beginning. And I think I'm really grateful that I found my path so early.

SPEAKER_03: 2:18

Well, yeah, and so cool that someone had such an impact on you that young. That's really a great story.

SPEAKER_05: 2:24

Good person and wonderful, like just sort of a a model of who I wanted to be, you know. So that's that's it's that's what we all are for each other, ideally. I hope, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 2:35

Good point. Very good point.

SPEAKER_03: 2:37

So when were the when were you first introduced to pickleball and what was going on in your life at the time?

SPEAKER_05: 2:42

That's a good, that's an interesting question. So I had uh my knee repla my both of my knees replaced during, I guess it was really toward the end of COVID, like one after another, about five months apart. And before then, I had just been, you know, playing casually like tennis and soccer and things like that, but I really was struggling. And so I had those my knees replaced. And when I rehab from that, my community in LA at that time, um, our neighborhood had just created a pickleball out of some old tennis ball or tennis courts because we were all aging, or at least part of it, many of us were, and thought this would be a great opportunity to introduce a new sport to our community as well as our neighboring community right across the street, Everly Glen, if you know LA at all. So we began playing, and they they, you know, somebody asked me to come out and do it because they said you're gonna love this, it's like tennis, which I already know how to do. And I had no idea what the kitchen was, I didn't know what the deal, I knew nothing. But afterward, the first day I ever played, the subsequent day I got a call from this man who had actually been the casting director on Jeopardy until he retired with Alice back, and he had been coaching and learned, like actually becoming a certified pickleball coach. And he said, Can I I have a question for you? And I thought he was gonna ask me a shrink question because usually that's you know what somebody would ask me. And he said, Do you want to join a group of people who play pickleball? And I was like, I don't even know the rules. And he was like, I know, but I just watched you play and I'll teach you those. But there's things I think you would enjoy about this group, and I'm not gonna tell you what they are until you get here. So I jumped in, I said, absolutely, and then found myself in the most incredibly emotionally intelligent, loving group of humans I had met in Los Angeles ever, beside my patients for grade. But um, but they were so amazing, and they all had this incredible capacity to be as emotionally evolved and collaborative and like sort of in a in a group way, kind of enjoying watching each other improve as well as enjoying playing together. They are amazing humans. They're still playing today. I went down to visit them and played again. Um but it was an introduction to a lifestyle that I could not have like structured if I drew the pen, you know, if I held the pen to do that. It was amazing. And we just played once a week, and we got we get to know each other's partners and each other's lives a little bit, but it was really centric uh about pickleball. It was incredible.

SPEAKER_01: 5:16

So we can thank Jeopardy for putting you on the court Jeopardy, actually, his retirement. Oh, that's very cool, very cool. So, why do you think that that was such a different experience? If you'd been in racket sports before, why was this such a different experience for you?

SPEAKER_05: 5:35

Oh boy, that's a really good question. So, a couple of things. Um, when I grew up playing tennis, I was playing in an era where Title IX had just come into place. Okay, Billy Jean King kind of era. That's how old I am. And in that light, like we got to play with we got to try out for the boys' varsity team, but it was really interesting because as an athlete at in that day, in that context, I didn't feel good winning and I didn't feel good losing. It just didn't, I loved the game, but it felt so I felt guilty when I won because I was winning over guys whose egos were getting bruised. And it was a very individualized kind of sport, although I could kind of modify my head to try to say I'm doing it for my team. And I didn't want to make people feel bad because I'm very naturally sort of codependent, probably. So that's a very clinical word for that. But I I didn't like it, it didn't feel that good. Like, wow, great. Now I just, you know, kind of did something that felt good for a minute, but it feels bad for longer than that. So that was there. And I and I also didn't feel good losing because then I was letting down my team. So I didn't like it. And even I played through college and you know, in like a recreational way and just made sure everything was like even and I'd win, but I'd win by a little, you know, I didn't have a way to do it well. And all of a sudden the world changed when I met Pickleball and Glenn and my friends, um, because they came, it was about fun, it was about enjoying your capacity to still be active at an older age and be decent at something that you could improve at, meet people who were similarly, similarly inclined, and and basically stay way younger than we would have been had we been, you know, home doing something sedentary and whatever else you could do.

SPEAKER_03: 7:23

Like it it changed my world, which I think it's so fun when you when you get with a group of people where you can really work on your skills, play at a high level, but in a fun way. Exactly.

SPEAKER_05: 7:33

Wow and celebrate each other's good shots too, because it's almost synergistically like, oh my god, that was amazing. Now check this out. You know, you can play and trash talk a little, whatever you do. In the spirit of collaboration and cooperation and connection instead of competition, which is really, I think, something they would do well to incorporate more in professional sports. Say more about that. Because there's a like even when with pro athletes that I've worked with, there's a level on a team where you're competing against each other as well as your opponents. So when it when the team functions as a team, there's an amazing amount of camaraderie. You can see it in college football, right? They are they love each other, they love the sport, and it's a family that then goes out and does something that works in that kind of collaborative way, and so does preparation like meditation before the game, or you know, Phil Jackson or JJ McCarthy, my favorite quarterback, um, because my kids went to Michigan. So, you know, like watching somebody who's got that level of um like mental or emotional clarity and kind it's it's just a level of of peace and being in the present that allows you to enjoy it to the fullest.

SPEAKER_01: 8:51

Interesting.

SPEAKER_05: 8:52

Which also then lends itself to sports psychology in the practical sort of performance way, because if you are focused on regretting your last shot, or your opponent's last shot, I mean, or your partner's anybody's, if you're thinking about what happened negatively, or you're worried about what's going to happen with the next point, you're not present for it. And it takes away the experience of it in a pleasurable way and creates anxiety in the future or regret or frustration in the past, and you lose it, you lose the benefits of the game and the and the sport itself, and even the you know, the activity because you're you're lost in your head instead of being there present with people who are sharing a moment with you.

SPEAKER_03: 9:35

Yes, that really makes a lot of sense. It's really interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 9:40

As many moments as you need, you actually get all that you need, whether it's number of winning shots or moments of high fiving somebody or whatever it is, or shaking hands after a game, you will get that level of fulfillment that is absolutely possible. But if you don't do it in that positive way, you sure change yourself. So, how do you help people that you're playing with on the court do that? Well, I hope my partner in my last tournament doesn't see this, but stop yelling at yourself because I can, you know, you hear what people are saying to themselves when they're standing next to you and going, Oh, I should uh, whatever I'm doing. It's like just reset. You know, it's interesting too. I was watching a professional thing the other day, and I kept thinking, why do they reinforce each other when they hit a like they make an error by tapping their paddles? I didn't even know it was to reset, but it's to reset to the present, not reset to get to a net game or a kitchen dinking game or something. It's really just check back into the present. Remember that movie Akeelah and the bee, and she would do this before she would spell? I think that was the same thing, and I think that's why the professionals do it. So it's not about congratulations, you know, tapping paddles. It's about come here, be here, let's next point. Which oh, there's another thread, and I actually know the source of this. Roger Federer was talking about how um he was doing graduation speeches this year, and I just saw a clip of him where he said, guess how many? I'm gonna paraphrase it obviously, but guess how many, what the percentage was of my winning points the best season I ever played? And you're thinking, what, maybe 70 something, 80 like that. He's the world champion, right? He said 54 were winners, only 54. And I so everybody was kind of shocked. It's kind of a shocking statistic. But then he clarified it by saying, Because if I was thinking about the point I just missed, I would not do as well on the next point. So his strategy was exactly what I just shared: like you next point, next point it all the way to the end of the game, and then celebrate that you did your best, and that was good enough, whatever it was.

SPEAKER_01: 11:47

You have to be kind to yourself, be kind to yourself, that's right. Because we're usually kind to the other people on the court, but are we that kind to ourselves? And uh yeah. So I I kind of resonated with what you were saying, how I was always that way in sports. I I didn't want to beat other people, but I didn't like winning, yeah, beat, beat, beat, yeah, that's kind of what and so I didn't have what you'd call the killer instinct, but I also wanted to win. So, how does one get to where? I mean, pickleball, I hear what you're saying, although now that it's at that professional level, you can see where people are not happy when they don't beat the other team. And so it's kind of created that same, it doesn't have that same come together and have fun at that level, but it does it where I'm when I'm playing, and we are always complimenting each other. Yay, good job. You just went right past me and it was just but how do we improve to where we are on a winning streak and not have that codependence of assuming the other person's feelings are gonna be so hurt because maybe I don't know what I think.

SPEAKER_05: 13:05

Giving yourself permission to do your very best, knowing in that those whoever your opponents are have this option to do the same thing, and then just going, wow, you had a good day, you know, because who knows what would have happened the next time you played. So you get you have permission to do your best, however, whatever the outcome is. The outcome's not the relevant portion, just you being kind to yourself, kind to others, doing your best, and letting that be enough, whatever that turns out to be. It's a different model.

SPEAKER_03: 13:34

I like that because and your best can look different every day, depending on so many factors.

SPEAKER_05: 13:39

You can hit a winner and then totally hit the servant of the net. And they're done that. So it's not even about what you do, it's about how you feel when you're doing it. And that's what I was saying about the professional stuff. Like, you can see it when it's like, gee, I'm not gonna win this so that I don't get as much winnings or what the professional stuff it gets real, it's work, they're not having fun anymore. And we luckily in this sport, especially at our age, is like, I mean, it's so great that it's named pickleball and it's a silly name because, like, do you really care about that pickleball trophy? Like, what's not doing for our self-esteem? It doesn't need to do anything other than be funny and you know, celebratory for a moment because it's all it really is ever for anyone. I mean, it's you're gonna leave if if you're a professional best at anything, you're going to retire with a loss.

SPEAKER_02: 14:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 14:33

If you don't set it up like the finish line is behind you, right?

unknown: 14:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 14:38

When you finish, you win, like that kind of a mentality. It has to be about your headset, and then it becomes just incredibly pleasurable and incredibly physically, mentally, spiritually, every which way beneficial and socially.

SPEAKER_01: 14:50

Socially, yes.

SPEAKER_05: 14:52

Making those kinds of connections, it's it's amazing that we can do that.

SPEAKER_01: 14:57

And there are people for whom I think of it as an ego thing where it is so important that they do win, even though it's a silly game, pickleball, but they'll call balls out when they're clearly in, or vice versa. And uh there's this desperate need to be the winner, even in a silly game like pickleball. Um, and you said that you have kind of incorporated this sports psychology even with your friends and all, and and you work with professional athletes and who I mean, professional athletes, they do have to try to win every single time. So, how do you how do you help them so that they are actually enjoying their lives and enjoying what they're doing if they're coming to you because they're struggling?

SPEAKER_05: 15:52

Well, okay, so it's the same thing I was telling you about what I I actually really do say to my partner like, I I have only one rule, please don't be mean to my partner. Don't do that. Because and then he and my friend is like, no, I I do better with the stick than the carrot. I'm like, don't do it out loud, please don't do it to yourself. Honestly, it's not you let's talk about that, you know. So we we I joke with them when we work on that stuff, but um, but with the professional athletes, I still think their if their goal is just being the best that they can be, that's the best of all things because synergistically, then everybody's doing that, and whatever the outcome is, is based on you doing your best and feeling like that's enough, which will help you do better. Certainly doesn't diminish your game, but when it's a negative mindset, like remember Bobby and I throwing chairs around. Oh I know my husband went to IU during that time, and it was really that's not celebratory. There's that's a hard thing to want to do or even want to enjoy watching because I don't like to see somebody doing that. However, I will say that if your opponent makes you mad, well, actually, they don't make you mad, we get mad because of what we're thinking and all that. If they do, I I do think it's more fun to get more aggressive in that I give myself permission to, you know what I mean? Like, really? Okay, well, let's see if you think this one was out. You know what I mean? Like that's okay. There's nothing wrong with doing that, but also with a little bit of tongue in cheek, kind of like again, that person is just telling you that their ego is so fragile that they need to call a ball out because they need this moment. I hope you heal. I hope I wish you well. But I'm not gonna, I don't want to like sort of just accommodate that. I'm gonna defend myself to the extent that I need to, but not in a way that makes me not feel good about how I'm handling it. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01: 17:41

Ah, good point.

SPEAKER_05: 17:42

Yeah, because that's all we have, because that's all we're in control of is ourselves, our responses, our behaviors, our thoughts, our feelings. That's all us, and all that stuff we have control over. So you can feel good no matter what they do.

SPEAKER_03: 17:55

Yeah, and feeling good about your best self and not comparing to others. That's the big thing, too. Yeah, to not look out and compare. Totally just in my in yourself, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 18:08

Yeah, and knowing that some days your best is better than others, and that's okay too.

SPEAKER_03: 18:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 18:14

And I love that pickleball, you can say so what? You know, and we're not standing on the, you know, and looking at the championship ring in some Super Bowl. Like that would be really hard. It's harder for them to get that. But again, I think the people who wind up feeling the most successful about their careers are the people who actually like have been present for the moments when they had an amazing result or played an amazing game or an amazing point or whatever. They they get those wins in a way that helps them feel good about themselves instead of just setting up a standard, they can never actually they can't cross that finish line if it's perfection.

SPEAKER_01: 18:52

No, in fact, one of our guests was commenting that in order if we're playing at a at a level that's a even level with other people, we we can't win every game. No, and if we are winning every game, it means we're playing down, and if we're not winning any games, we're playing beyond us, right? And so finding that place where some wins, some lose, and that's just the way it is.

SPEAKER_05: 19:23

Yes, and that the only person you're trying to be better than is the person you were yesterday or the player yesterday, right? And that way you're also not dependent in some way on or sort of distracted even by how well your partner's doing or not how well they're not doing, you know. You just focus on doing the best you can, and that's sufficient.

SPEAKER_01: 19:45

So, how does how does this relate to relationships? Because obviously you're working with people who aren't just into sports, but you're working with people in all different phases of life and relationships, I imagine. So, how does this relate?

SPEAKER_05: 19:58

Exactly the same way. Don't be mean to my partner. If you want to have a great partner, be a great partner. Like you just do it's it's the same all across the board, right? And you come from love and acceptance and understanding as you try to work through disagreements or conflicts or whatever instead of fear. I mean, that's always the kind of the ideal choice, you know. And we're all human, so nobody does it all the time. But again, then you just try again and try to do better the next day. And five minutes of doing better is something. So you know, you're just gentle with yourself and accepting and and kind of nurturing as well as showing up in the world the same way, which the but there's something about pickleball specifically that lends itself to the connection, the collaboration. Like we were talking about tournaments, and you know, you're you're exchanging numbers with people at the end of a tournament, like they don't do that in most sports. See that person again is how you feel a lot of the time, right?

SPEAKER_03: 20:56

Right. It occurs to me that another so much when you have a good game or you have fun, you just want to recreate it again, right? And you know, you have so much fun with those people. Give me your number, let's play this again. This was so fun. We can recreate it. It's kind of addicting, it's very addicting.

SPEAKER_01: 21:15

Tell us about that, Lynn. Right before the show, you were giving us some information. We said, okay, we want you to share that with our audience.

SPEAKER_05: 21:22

I I tell my friends this, and I'm gonna share it with you. And I I don't know exactly where it came from, but I remember when I read it, the source seems very credible, and so I shared it with all my friends on the court, um, which is that part of what's so I guess it is addicting, it's also just so remarkably fulfilling for people who are older to find something at older ages than you know, teens or early 20s that they can actually do competently.

unknown: 21:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 21:50

I mean, that there's hilarious clips out there of kids going like that old grandma person just beat me to like I just lost that whole like they were shocked, right? But it's so fun to be able to actually be competent at something and hit winners or really good shots because of some background we have in whatever sports we all played, or just skill set. But the the the thing I read is that pickleball is specifically addicting because apparently, whenever you hit a winner or you serve an amazing shot, or you I don't know, do whatever you're doing that feels that level of I just did the most amazing thing, you are getting as much dopamine as you would if you did a bump of cocaine or had an orgasm. So reportedly from the source, they said that's part of what keeps us coming back again and wanting that one more game, or you know, oh a couple more points, let's play to 15, you know, whatever it is. We love it. That's really very heady and it's very, very fun. So don't commit this molecule of more, right? So it's all about more.

SPEAKER_01: 22:54

That is so funny when you told us that. We say, Oh man, you definitely have to share that. Can I? Yes, you absolutely can. Keeps us healthy that way.

SPEAKER_04: 23:03

Okay, it keeps us healthy in so many ways.

SPEAKER_05: 23:06

I'm sure you can talk to a million people, like physically and again, socially. How have you? I mean, given that we're, you know, like in a work world and you can't really interact that much with people you work with, but those are the people you see most of your waking hours until you retire, and then you don't see anybody except maybe your extended family. How do you recreate social groups at ages that are again past college, where you're just saying, what's your major or what's what school did you go to, or something? There's there's no opportunity for that that's set up because people are so mobile and we move and we don't stay in our hometowns. So recreating a group of people who share something we all love, yeah, it's very it's amazingly connecting, and we're similar, we're active, we want to connect with other people. The socialization fact factor in pickleball is probably even more healthy than the physical benefits of the whole like 10 years more longevity with quality of life if you do racket sports like pickleball. That's amazing. Is that blue zone oriented? Well, the blue, it's funny you said the blue zones because I read something in the blue zones about Loma Linda being one of the blue zones, and they weren't sure at the time I was reading that stuff what it was about. Was it about the religious background? Because I think they're all a particular kind of religious California, Loma Linda, California. And I can't remember what religion it is, but it's kind of you know, it's like but they're vegetarian and they're very kind of uh they they have a good connection, so they were trying to identify what factors it was that made this region so um, you know, kind of beneficial, and they realized it was the socialization, the recreation, and they there was a lot of pickleball. That was amazing. I thought that was like amazing because it's very because we create groups, yes. Like I bet you you have chat groups right now in your phones, yeah. Many exactly, yeah, phenomenal. And when are you able to do that?

SPEAKER_01: 25:05

Maybe book club or where dancing, I guess, dance groups, and and there are, but there is just something, and and it's um it's easy to enter, it's easy to feel successful pretty quickly in the game. And it occurs to me when I was asking you about relationships. Here's a good relationship thing that you know, if one partner wants a little more sex and the other one doesn't, the other one says, Hey, go play pickleball.

SPEAKER_04: 25:34

I'm tired tonight. Go play pickleball. You got a lot of people are gonna borrow your line.

SPEAKER_05: 25:45

And the socialization part, like that's also a really specific precursor to longevity. Like, isolation is like the mother of depression, it's horrible, and it's really hard not to feel that at some point in one's life unless you have a group outside of family that is actually kind of family as well. Not as much dysfunctional family, more like family of choice.

SPEAKER_01: 26:10

Yeah, and that's a nice thing with pickleball. You can kind of choose who you want to play with. There are some people who you just know they are not fun to play with. And exactly.

SPEAKER_05: 26:19

And it's funny how we all sort of self-divide into pods, yeah. Pods we're calling them, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 26:25

And then we switch up, at least our groups, we play with one partner for the first game, and then we switch to partners so that we we play against the people that we end up being partners with, and that really does create more of a sense of collaboration.

SPEAKER_05: 26:38

Exactly. Yeah, you know, it's funny, like in I don't know what it was like in LA in the leagues because I didn't do them there, but I don't think it worked like the way it does here in Washington, where I played in leagues. First time I ever did that, because I didn't know anybody. I was like, I've got to meet people. So I thought that would be a way to do it. I thought I was signing up to be a sub. So I signed up for like three, and I was like, oh my god, no, I'm stuck. But it was great. So they the way they do leagues is you show up and start in a particular like random format, and then you keep track, you play with each person in your four some group on that particular court. Okay, so you're partner with everybody, and then based on what happened, then you either move up a court or you stay at that court, or you can move down a court depending on where you are, right? Like wherever. So you start, you find your own level, but you because you play with each of those people as partners, you and you begin to play with them more frequently because you're sort of the same level. Um, you do establish that level of cooperation. So you're playing with a group of friends, and you know, some days you play better with one friend versus another, but it doesn't feel like you know the grudge match of the century at all, right?

SPEAKER_01: 27:48

That's good PR for leagues. So those of you who have never been in a league, look into it because it's just a lot of fun and you go get I think the ones that I've been a part of have, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 28:00

See, I don't think they just went in LA at all. They leagues play against other leagues, so they would pick their people and then they would set up matches more like they were a team. It didn't work this way.

SPEAKER_01: 28:09

Yeah, no, this is terrific. Yeah, I think they do that here. Oh, that's very cool. So, in all of your experiences on and off the court, what life lessons have you gleaned?

SPEAKER_05: 28:22

Well, that's a very good question. Um, so I actually had to look at that piece of me that had been getting triggered because I felt guilty about winning. Like, I thought I was kind of I did therapy, you know, I was in therapy school. You kind of got to do what's like you gotta be on the couch in order to always like talk, you know. And so, although they didn't like it back then, they thought it was kind of not appropriate, but we all did it anyway because it was so important to be able to say, like, how could I ever help anybody unless I'm actually doing it personally? It didn't make sense. So, in that light, as you kind of work through your stuff, you feel like, well, okay, like I'm kind of fine now, right? I don't have I don't trigger often. I kind of feel like I'm I'm not reactive, I'm more responsive. I've got most of that stuff. I'm you know, on a good day. But but I will say that like hitting up against this whole new way of dealing with sports really it pushed my buttons because there was a moment, a couple of different times where I felt like I was playing too hard or I should be lightening up, which you know, you because you get sometimes people with different levels, and not that I was like going after people or trying to win. It's I think it's really hard to play like softly when you're trying really hard to be careful with somebody who's not as skilled, you know, instead of just taking an overhead or whatever. Yeah. Um, and that was a really interesting thing to learn on a psychological level because what was happening was I was I I can't play as well like that. I still have trouble with it. Like, I don't play as well at all when I'm playing with somebody who isn't as Strong in a particular level. So to give yourself a way to learn how to do it differently instead of just lower your level was a very, very good learning experience. And also people cheating. You're right. Then I'd be like, well, do I really want to get mad about this and make a federal case? I don't know. I'll just do something better next time to not give them an opportunity to call that ball incorrectly. Or I'll ask for a linesman if I'm in a tournament. But you know, like I because you don't need to tolerate somebody being abusive or you know, dishonest with you. Like you get to set boundaries. Absolutely. That's part of having decent self-esteem. And it helps them learn something too, but not with a lot of frustration or regret or guilt about being too good at something. You know, just you just give yourself permission to play as well as you can, and that's okay. Because again, the other person, if they're honest, is gonna learn more from you if you play your real game than if you dumb yours down to play with them. But not at their expense. No, we don't do that.

SPEAKER_01: 31:05

Yeah. So play your best and be kind. That's it.

SPEAKER_05: 31:09

That's exactly it.

SPEAKER_01: 31:10

And use the the tradition in pickleball to never quite remember what the score is. Oh my god, I hate do that in your relationships too. Yes. Forget the score.

SPEAKER_05: 31:23

That's great. Oh my gosh, that's a t-shirt. Forget the score.

SPEAKER_01: 31:33

Oh my gosh, you are so fun. So, how can people find you?

SPEAKER_05: 31:37

Oh, I'm online. My website's online. Um, and I'm here in Seattle, but I or in California, but I do telehealth mostly.

SPEAKER_01: 31:45

So right? You do virtual, right?

SPEAKER_05: 31:47

Yeah, we got you know, all the insurance companies gave us the opportunity to do that during COVID, and then they kept it up because again, you can serve so many more people. And frankly, when you're doing a lot of work emotionally, my my work is about trauma-informed therapy a lot. So that's really what my specialty is, and it has to do not just with like what they used to call capital T trauma, like war or world trade center or something, but chronic lower level tea, which is all of our childhoods, right? So true because we all felt pain or or fear or frustration, and our coping strategies that were protective have become problematic. So that's when we trigger, we go to fight or flight or fix. We all have our own little predisposition to do that. But when you work through your old issues, you can make choices that are more like we're talking about now. What do you want to do instead of what do you naturally go to when somebody cheats or pushes your buttons or does whatever they do? And and learning about yourself in that way, you have an opportunity to do that because pickleball will push your buttons simply because of the nature of the fact that it's engaging.

SPEAKER_01: 32:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_05: 32:53

Yeah, so reset, reset, reset, unhook those buttons and do your trauma and form therapy to make sure you're not you're not in your 10-year-old self instead of your grown-up self. Yeah, all those things are welcome. And enjoy, enjoy, be nice yourself, be nice to others, be kind. It's perfect, and enjoy and be in the present.

SPEAKER_01: 33:15

Be in the present moment. Well, in this present moment, we feel very grateful for you. Thank you for being our guest. This has been a lot of fun and very informative. And wow, that bit of data about the addiction to pickleball is gonna stay with us for quite a while. Thank you so much, Lynn. Really, thank you so much. I will I will look forward to seeing you on the courts. Indeed. And we want to thank you all for joining us today. Really insightful, pretty fun. One of you is feeling tired, send the other one out on the court. That's all there is to it. We uh really appreciate you joining and have a great, great day. And we look forward to a new conversation next week. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_03: 34:04

Bye-bye. If you love our podcast, we'd be so grateful if you'd take a few seconds to follow or subscribe to Life Lessons from Pickleball. This ensures you'll never miss an episode and helps us continue these wonderful conversations.

SPEAKER_01: 34:19

On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, go to the show page and tap the follow button in the top right corner. And on YouTube, click the subscribe button under any of the episodes. Thanks so much. Hope to see you on the court.