SPEAKER_02: 0:00

Hi, I'm Shelly Mauer. And I'm Cher Emrik. Welcome to Life Lessons from Pickleball, where we engage with pickleball players from around the world about life on and off the court. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_03: 0:15

Welcome everyone to Life Lessons from Pickleball. For those of you who are new to our YouTube channel, you will notice that Shelly is wearing a very serious neck brace. Shelly, bring us up to date.

SPEAKER_00: 0:28

Yeah, for the people that are new, I had a hiking accident. I fell down a mountain in Switzerland. Um, but I'm doing really well now. And hopefully in the next couple weeks, this is going to be gone. I can't wait.

SPEAKER_03: 0:41

We are so excited. We can't wait to, yeah. Thank you. And today we are delighted to have as our guest Dr. Jerry Brinniger. Dr. Jay, you have worn many hats with your primary hat being a marriage and family therapist.

SPEAKER_00: 0:58

Dr. Jay, you're also a USA pickleball ambassador. I see you're sporting that on your shirt today, who helped grow the Athens, Georgia community, and a decorated senior competitor with more than 100 tournaments and 139 medals. Wow.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16

Wow. And you claim your most rewarding ambassador work has been teaching adaptive pickleball to veterans with spinal cord injuries at the VA, and you've become a leading voice for fair, age plus skill tournament design, or as you say, leveling the playing field.

SPEAKER_00: 1:36

We have a lot to talk about, but let's start with what was happening in your life when you first picked up a paddle?

SPEAKER_04: 1:43

Well, I was um an avid racquetball player, and I was visiting my cousin in Surprise, Arizona, Ron Brenniger, and he kept bugging me about this silly sounding game, pickleball. And I said, Ron, I've I've played tennis and baseball and sports all my life, and I'm not gonna play pickleball. And he said, just play it once, just come out and play it once. And I said, Okay. And I went out, and all it takes in this game is one. And I was hooked. I was just hooked. And uh two years later, he came to Georgia and we won gold in the men's doubles in the Georgia uh state Olympic Games, and uh it just uh I fell in love with it. Ironically, at the same time, I had had an eye injury in racqueball, and uh I'm old enough now, I don't mind giving away my secrets, but um I have an occluded retinal vein, and so I have double vision in my right eye, and I had to learn to see two balls coming at me. Of course, they get closer as they get to me, and I've learned to hit the ball on the left. It was just a nice uh substitute, uh rack-a-ball was kind of uh seen its day with my eye injury and all. So it's it's worked out very well for me. I've I've loved it.

SPEAKER_03: 3:26

Well, that's impressive. I have lost the vision central vision of my right eye, but so I don't see two balls, but I have to be sure my left eye is looking at the ball. I'm definitely gonna miss it. But uh watching two balls and having to choose which one which one to hit, I think that's pretty darn impressive. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 3:48

The one on the left, the one on the right.

SPEAKER_03: 3:52

Oh my gosh. So you've mentioned that your most rewarding work is um working with adaptive athletes, and we love that our previous guest, Twila Adams, was one of in your first class. And so tell us about uh your work with adaptive athletes.

SPEAKER_04: 4:12

Well, um I got this call from the VA uh asking me to do uh this workshop for uh at the time they were called rock and rollers. Um it's become adaptive pickleball players, but for uh spinal cord injured veterans. And I I agreed, uh uh I let them know that I didn't know a lot about it. But I had great students, Twilight was one of them. She picked up the game immediately and uh actually gave a competitive game at the end of that first uh go around. It was just so rewarding uh to see these guys and and gals um come alive. Uh they were so exuberant. Uh they taught me my first lesson about teaching adaptive pickleball. You need to have sports wheelchairs because uh some of them were in regular wheelchairs, and this one guy was so exuberant he he leaned out too far and came out of his chair. Ouch. And so uh we learned you know you need to have a seat belt and uh you need to have uh the wide wheels for safety, and uh it's been a lot of fun. Uh Twila and I have uh taught a couple of classes since then. She has become an ambassador also.

SPEAKER_03: 5:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 5:47

Um and uh good friends. Uh I just really enjoyed. I I still don't know why they asked me, um, but they did. And uh I'm glad to be involved in it. It's just a wonderful, wonderful experience. To see the joy uh come alive in uh some of these wounded wounded lives has been very rewarding.

SPEAKER_00: 6:15

Well, and to see them have such purpose and a community and so much fun, yeah, reason to get out of the house, that's so rewarding.

SPEAKER_03: 6:26

So, what are uh few things that you've noticed in addition to realizing that sports wheelchairs are necessary? Um what are some things that most clubs could do to be more available to adaptive athletes?

SPEAKER_04: 6:45

Well, they can hold uh workshops uh open to uh adaptive players in their community and just get the word out. And you'd be surprised uh they have basketball leagues, they have tennis leagues, so the adaptive players are out there. It's just a matter of local clubs recognizing that and uh organizing, like our local board supported the last workshop that Twilight and I did here in Athens. And um we had a full capacity crowd, and to see the enjoyment of the non-adaptive helpers is also rewarding because if they're not in some corner in with tears of compassion, they're out there playing their hearts out and and learning that uh hey, uh don't take it too easy on these folks. They're there are athletes in the chair. And uh Twila's one of them. She she's an incredible pickleball player.

SPEAKER_03: 7:54

Plays often with um able-bodied, is that the term now? What's the term for non-adaptive athletes?

SPEAKER_04: 8:03

Um ambulatory, uh Ambulatory. Um I guess non-adaptive for non-adaptives, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 8:11

Non-adaptives. And are there different rules for adaptive pickleball?

SPEAKER_04: 8:17

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_03: 8:18

Um can you share some of those?

SPEAKER_04: 8:21

Well, they have a two-bounce rule, and um their um the front wheels of their sports chair can go into the kitchen.

SPEAKER_01: 8:32

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04: 8:33

Uh their wheels can go outside the lines uh when serving, and uh so um, but there's a whole section of adaptive pickleball rules on the USAP.org site.

SPEAKER_03: 8:48

Nice.

SPEAKER_04: 8:49

And um other than that, it's basically the same rules. Um stay out of the kitchen.

SPEAKER_03: 8:56

Um overhead serves. That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_04: 9:03

I think there are other um, you know, adaptive pickleball has been very rewarding for me, but I I think the most rewarding experience that I've had is we had a player here in Athens who was ninety-three or ninety-four years old, uh Jim Congolos, and uh he kept playing almost almost to the day of his death.

SPEAKER_03: 9:29

Wow.

SPEAKER_04: 9:30

Um, and he was my buddy, and uh I had played in a tournament with him just to let him have an experience of playing in a tournament. And we only won one game in that tournament, but if you'd have seen him, you'd have thought we'd won the World Series. His last game, he came to the Thomas Lay Center here in Athens, and he came in with a walker, very, very uh just really uh having trouble. Um but when he got inside and his wife handed him his paddle, he put that walker in the stands, came out on the court as my partner, and thanks to some gracious opponents, um, he hit the ball several times and we won. And again, uh I I wish I had a picture to show you of his face when we won. He jumped up, he did this with his fist. It's like we had we had won uh again, one won the nationals or something.

SPEAKER_00: 10:47

That is that is such a great story. I love that story. Oh, and you know, it's a great segue into you're real passionate about, as we talked earlier, the level playing field when we're in tournaments.

SPEAKER_04: 11:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 11:02

Uh that where it's fair for age versus skill. And I've experienced unfairness before in tournaments, and so I can really relate. So you want to can you explain that? Um, Sherry and I were talking before you came on, and she made people that haven't done tournaments don't really even know what a bracket is or what we're talking about. So if you can explain that.

SPEAKER_03: 11:30

We senior citizens.

SPEAKER_04: 11:32

I don't tell people I'm aging anymore. I just say I'm old.

SPEAKER_03: 11:37

I'm there.

SPEAKER_04: 11:39

But as I'm 82 years old, and uh Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_03: 11:44

Say that again?

SPEAKER_04: 11:45

I'm 82 years old. Oh no way. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03: 11:48

Wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 11:49

Um in the last uh three or four tournaments, I've gotten I've been smoked. Um because they put me in one tournament, I was playing against 60-year-old brackets. And uh but most of the time they put me in a 70-year-old bracket. And I I think the tournament directors uh don't have the concept of aging differences that a 70-year-old hitting the ball and an 80-year-old hitting the ball are two very different human beings.

SPEAKER_03: 12:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_04: 12:26

Uh, with different response times and reactions, but it hasn't been solved yet to even even the the playing field. Um they tried it uh for about oh maybe two years, where they would mix you in with a younger age, but then they'd give you a medal. And no one likes participation medals. Right. So um what they've done now is most uh tournaments that I've been in, they put you in a round robin type setting where it isn't two and out and you go home. But you at least get to play six to eight games in every tournament. Um but if you play on a national level, which which I did in Pittsburgh in 2023, I was playing in 75 plus, which was better. And uh in mixed doubles and men's doubles, and in singles I was playing in 80 plus my my bracket. And um you can compete at your age level, but there are distinctive differences every every five years to ten, especially ten years. Um there's a big difference in physical ability, but it's still a problem out there that's not been solved. Uh let's face it, the competition at higher age levels is diminishing. Um there aren't that many eighty-year-olds competing. Um a lot of 70-year-olds still in the game, but uh it's diminishing for for us old guys and gals.

SPEAKER_03: 14:06

For one thing, I'm sorry, I'm just can't get over that you're in your 80s. You uh do not look it or sound it or seem it, so that's really impressive. But I'm sure there's you feel it to some degree when you're on the court playing against the young'uns.

SPEAKER_04: 14:21

I teamed up with a uh 22-year-old in a tournament last year, and I remember telling him just before we went on the court to play, I said, Now you're about to experience playing with the oldest partner you'll probably ever experience. He he just shot it right back at me. He said, Well, you were playing with probably the youngest partner you've ever experienced.

SPEAKER_03: 14:47

And how'd it go?

SPEAKER_04: 14:48

Oh, we had fun. We did not meddle, but we we had a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00: 14:52

Can you tell us the the listeners the story about the most famous partner you've ever played with?

SPEAKER_04: 14:59

Oh my gosh. Uh it wasn't a partner, I played against him. Oh I went to our local pickleball park, the southeastern Clark Park, and there were four young men practicing in the far corner court that nobody knew. Everybody was looking at them, and and it was pretty obvious that they were really, really good. And as an ambassador, I greet all newbies that come to our courts, and uh I so I watched them for a while, and and I realized they must be pros. And uh I went over after about 30 minutes of watching them, and I picked out the one, the youngest guy that looked he looked like he was the best player, and I said, Would you mind showing an old guy uh a fast serve? And uh he said, sure. And I said, Why don't we just play a singles game uh to three points? And uh he said, okay. And we played, and I didn't I I hardly s was able to see his serves.

SPEAKER_03: 16:11

Wow, let alone hit it.

SPEAKER_04: 16:13

It's unbelievable. And I hit a usually I hit a winning shot uh in the far corner where he wasn't, and he got it and returned it like it was popcorn. And and so when we were walking off the court, I said, you know, I have a hearing loss, son. I'm sorry, uh, what did you say your name was? And he said, I'm Ben Johns.

SPEAKER_03: 16:40

Oh, no way.

SPEAKER_04: 16:42

That's what I said. I well, that's not what I said, but I said I couldn't believe it. And uh then he introduced me to Deco Barr, who was who's the number one player in Israel, yeah, and uh number five in the world at that time, and uh Rob Nunry, uh pro, was there, and uh I forget the fourth person, but I like to tell people, hey, Ben John's only beat me by three points.

SPEAKER_00: 17:16

And you don't have to tell him the game was only to three.

SPEAKER_04: 17:20

Well, almost everyone has yeah, he is such a wonderful young man. Uh I'm I don't think the pros have changed him any. He's still so gracious and uh but he is so good. Um if you watch him play, he's he's entertaining to watch, he's just unbelievable. A year later, uh he happened to be warming up on this way back court where no no spectators can get. That's where they put the old old guys, you know. Nobody's there to watch us play. So he's way back in this isolated court, and I get that court assignment, and so I had to go and bump Ben Johns off of our court. And he was very gracious and took another picture and all that stuff. And I've run into him at other tournaments too, and he's always so so polite and uh just just a fine young man. Can't say enough good about him.

SPEAKER_03: 18:29

That's really good to hear. I saw a recent uh interview that he he was somewhere overseas and being interviewed in Malaysia, I think, and he was talking about how important it is to have balance in our lives, to not just be about the sport, but also to have time off, to be with family and friends. I really appreciated that he wasn't just all about the win-win-win. And that certainly seems the way he is on the court, too. He just uh seems really gracious. Yeah. So I'm glad to hear that you had that experience, that is he only beat me by three points. That is that is good. That is gold.

SPEAKER_04: 19:11

Yeah, not bad for an old guy.

SPEAKER_00: 19:16

Back to the tournament thing. Are you I saw a couple articles you've written about the leveling the fair play? How are you working with USA pickleball on this or uh not currently?

SPEAKER_04: 19:27

I've I'm still an ambassador and still active at large, uh, but I'm no longer the moderator of the uh ambassador site on um on the internet. So no, I I'm not working actively on it, um, other than giving pickleball tournament directors the what for when it when it's uh unfair kind of matchup and just say, hey, this is this is not fun for for 80-year-olds to show up and and get smoked. Uh the duper ratings um system uh has begun to deal with this leveling uh issue um by not penalizing the uh higher age brackets that um lose in the lower age brackets and still qualify for a medal, uh they're helping. Um that's a that's a good start.

SPEAKER_00: 20:22

My understanding is now in the algorithm it has a a score that they think your game should be, right? Like they think, oh, you're gonna lose, but you should maybe lose 11 to 4. And so if you even are better, I think, and then if you lose like 11 to 8, your duper actually goes up, even though you've lost because you did better than what the algorithm thought you would do.

SPEAKER_04: 20:46

If you're in the game, like 1110, 11 or 1210, 11.8, 11.9, then that would that will not work in your favor. But if you're getting smoked, 11 to 1, 11 to 2, it's just not a good feeling, by the way.

SPEAKER_03: 21:04

I've been there done that. I've been on both of that. That's yeah, that's important.

SPEAKER_04: 21:10

It doesn't feel good to be on the winning side of that either. It's like oh man.

SPEAKER_03: 21:15

Good point. Good point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 21:17

But uh I am preparing for the USAP national championship games in San Diego in November. Oh nice. I will be playing in the 80 80 plus bracket in uh all three events, the mixed doubles, men's doubles, and singles.

SPEAKER_03: 21:36

Do you know how many in your age group will be there?

SPEAKER_04: 21:40

I do not know. Uh this was it's a golden ticket uh event where you had to qualify um you had you had to uh win uh these regional championship games. You had to qualify uh uh be in the top three. And the gold medal winners uh registered first, and then the silver medal second and bronze third. I know that it's gonna be uh elite competition that uh it's a it's a it's a championship tournament of all the winners throughout the United States in these regional games.

SPEAKER_03: 22:23

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_04: 22:24

I'm looking forward to it. Um win or lose, it's quite an experience to go to a big have you been to a big tournament like this um only here in Seattle.

SPEAKER_03: 22:37

It wasn't as big as what you're gonna have in San Diego.

SPEAKER_04: 22:40

It's just um it's awe-inspiring, and you know, one of the life lessons of pickleball is the community. Um and it's it's the community in pickleball is kind of like uh family reunions, family picnics. There's a the there's an unwritten policy. No politics, no religion, just eat and have fun.

SPEAKER_03: 23:10

I think that's fantastic. Yeah, yeah, and how perfect segue because I was just gonna ask you in all of your adventures, what life lessons have you gleaned? Either that there are life lessons that you had in life that you find yourself using on the court, or lessons that while you were playing, you thought, whoa, this is something I really need to incorporate into my life. Can you share some others?

SPEAKER_04: 23:37

Well, there's an old Scottish proverb that says, um, be happy while you're living, because ye be a long time dead. So uh I think one of the life lessons is you're never too old to have fun. Uh it's just uh an open community to to all skill levels, uh, all people, everyone's welcome. Uh no one asks you when you go out to play pickleball, what's your nationality, what's your ethnic group, what do you do for a living. Um I looked up one time playing this couple, and it it was my uh neurologist and his wife. And I caught him off guard. I I beat him the only time. And I got my I got my heart doctor to play, and I got my gastroontologist, his wife. Uh they they play. And uh I try to get every doctor that I see to play.

SPEAKER_03: 24:44

I love that. So adaptive athletes and doctors, those are your focus. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. You're an inspiration, Doctor Jay. You're a real inspiration personally, and the work you're doing as an ambassador, and the work you're doing with adaptive athletes, and the work you're doing with doctors. Thank you. We need really healthy doctors out there too.

SPEAKER_04: 25:10

So I like to have them close by.

SPEAKER_03: 25:14

Indeed. Right there on the court in case they're needed.

SPEAKER_04: 25:19

Yeah, one of my um tournament partners was my former uh, he's retired now, my uh dermatologist.

SPEAKER_01: 25:27

And oh fun.

SPEAKER_04: 25:28

I remember I I I fell and uh scraped my uh elbow, and right there on the court he's examining me and saying, You better put some um whatever medicine he recommended. You better put some ointment on that.

SPEAKER_03: 25:44

The question is, did he send you a bill? No, he didn't. Yay, that's the pickleball community. I like that.

SPEAKER_04: 25:53

I told him David, David Lockman. I told him, David, we're we're partners here. I'm not in your office. Right on.

SPEAKER_03: 26:01

That's so cute. That's so cute. So, how can people find you online?

SPEAKER_04: 26:06

Drjbrenniger.com.

SPEAKER_03: 26:09

Um, because I think people might also want to be in touch with you about how to advocate for the level playing field like you're suggesting in brackets and all. And so it'd be great if there were some huge petition or something that could get the uh attention of the people who are running the brackets and all, and just kind of make it a thing so that it's expected.

SPEAKER_04: 26:33

I think that's a good point in terms of younger ages. Um, I'm not sure a level playing field is going to be possible for the 80 plus crowd. Because maybe it really is a diminishing uh age, but uh definitely for the 70-year-olds, 75-year-olds, um be reached to probably the best way to reach me is to type in Dr. J. Athens, Georgia.

SPEAKER_03: 27:02

Dr. J Athens, Georgia. Yeah, and they'll find you.

SPEAKER_04: 27:05

My site pops up all over the place.

SPEAKER_03: 27:07

Very cool. Well, Dr. J in Athens, Georgia, we thank you very, very much for being our guest. You're just a wonderful guy, and we love your connection with our beloved Twyla and with all the work you're doing. Thank you very, very much.

SPEAKER_04: 27:24

Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03: 27:27

And we thank you all for tuning in. Uh, share this with everybody you know, my gosh, and help the brackets level the playing field and embrace those of all ages, all abilities, and every background because it's just all about having fun on the court. Thank you all, and we look forward to a new conversation next week. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_00: 27:52

Bye-bye. If you love our podcast, we'd be so grateful if you'd take a few seconds to follow or subscribe to Life Lessons from Pickleball. This ensures you'll never miss an episode and helps us continue these wonderful conversations.

SPEAKER_03: 28:07

On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, go to the show page and tap the follow button in the top right corner. And on YouTube, click the subscribe button under any of the episodes.

SPEAKER_02: 28:20

Thanks so much. Hope to see you on the court.