SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Hi, I'm Shelly Mauer. And I'm Cher Emrik. Welcome to Life Lessons from Pickleball. Where we engage with pickleball players from around the world about life on and off the court. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_02: 0:15

Welcome everyone to Life Lessons from Pickleball. We are so glad to have you, and especially those of you who are new to us, welcome. And if you're watching on YouTube, you might be wondering what in the world is Shelly wearing on her neck. Shelly, why don't you bring us up to date?

SPEAKER_00: 0:32

Um, this is I just want everyone to make sure everyone knows this is not a pickleball injury. I was hiking on the mountains of Switzerland and I had an accident. Um, and but everything's healing well, and it's going to be coming off real soon, hopefully in a couple weeks. Big neck brace.

SPEAKER_02: 0:48

Yeah, well, we're so glad, honestly, it was a very serious fall, and we're just glad you're alive and here to share that story with us. Thanks, Shelly. And how brilliant is it for us to have as our guest Ron Ponder. Ron, we are so delighted to have you here, and you've been deeply involved in every level of pickleball since 2017.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13

You are a USA Pickleball certified referee. You've served seven years as an ambassador, including as an international director of ambassadors, and you sit on the USA Pickleball Rules Committee.

SPEAKER_02: 1:26

And you're now the Global Pickleball Federation's Director of Officiating, traveling the world, boy, I'll say, to teach both officiating and pickleball.

SPEAKER_00: 1:36

Wow, Ron, we have a lot to dive into. But let's start with what was happening in your life when you first picked up a pickleball paddle?

SPEAKER_03: 1:46

So I used to be an avid bicyclist. That's what I did 20 to 30 miles a day. I was in um Galveston, Texas, living a good life. Um, I went for a ride with a with a guy, and at the end of it, he said, Hey, we're playing pickleball this afternoon if you want to join us. And I'm like, never heard of it, don't know what that is, but sure, I'll come along. And I did and and had a good time. So um kind of off and running there. So yeah. But but uh yeah, everything was good in my life, and and um I didn't know it, but I was ready for a new adventure.

SPEAKER_02: 2:30

And boy, has it not been an adventure, and we're gonna get into that adventure. You used the in in your intro to us, we asked you to send something, and you wrote, playing fanatically, refing responsibly. What what was that trajectory for you?

SPEAKER_03: 2:48

So um I became a referee shortly after I I took up the sport and um found out, you know, sometimes you don't know you've got talents that that have been hidden, and it turned out I was a good referee. Um, you know, I was loud, I was confident whether I was right or whether I was wrong. Uh obviously I was good looking, and so um everything kind of went well, and I very seldom said no. So if someone said, hey, come ref at this tournament or let's do this or let's do that, I was I was game for it.

SPEAKER_00: 3:31

So someone just to ask you, I because I've been playing for about two and a half years now, and I I'm fanatic, I love it, but I've never thought about refing. No one's ever asked me to ref.

SPEAKER_03: 3:41

So my story is pretty quickly was that I played in Galveston, Texas that time. Five months later, and we've got a vacation home in Galveston, Texas. And five months later I went back down there and thought, oh, I can go play that pickleball game. And I did that. Six months later, I went down there and I found out I was looking forward to playing. So um, and then I thought I'll check in Oklahoma City, see if there's any club or anything there. Probably not, because if I haven't heard of it, probably no one else has ever heard of it. Well, it turned out we had a club with 400 members. Um I think we're now at 4,000 members, and so I played every day for three weeks. Well, what I did in my bicycle life was that every year I would go to Europe, I would take a little folding bike, and I would tour around in Europe for five weeks. Um, that time I was in England, it was raining every day, and so I found a group there uh in South London to play with, and I played with them every, you know, two or three nights, uh, one week. And then one night they said, Hey, we're going to Madrid next week to play in a tournament. And I said, Oh, well, I'm not doing anything, I'll come watch. And they said, No, come play. And I'm like, I'm not good enough. And they said, Oh, send them money, they don't care. So I sent them money, and it turned out they didn't care. But I thought, hey, if I'm going to play in this tournament, I should probably know the rules. And so I read the rules the night before the tournament, which is unusual for tournament players because most of them have never read the rules. So I went to this tournament, had a really good time, came back to the States, drove 1,400 miles to Georgia to play in a tournament, and I only had I I only entered in singles because I didn't know how to enter as a double, and I didn't have a partner or anything. But I thought it was a seniors tournament, and I thought, well, it's three weeks away. Surely someone will die by the time the tournament rolls around, and I'll have a I'll have a partner. Well, that didn't happen. I mean, thank goodness.

SPEAKER_02: 5:58

Didn't know what to wish for.

SPEAKER_03: 6:00

So I drove down there, scored four points in singles. I'm not a singles player. As I'm walking out to my car, I heard the announcement we need referees. If you know the rules, you can be a referee. And that's verbatim. That's exactly what was said. So I thought, well, I read the rule book two weeks ago, turned around, went back, followed one guy for a game to 21, and I was a referee. That's not the way it happens now, but that's the way it happened for me.

SPEAKER_02: 6:36

How does it happen now?

SPEAKER_03: 6:38

So now, um, so I was a referee for a little while, six months, something like that, in Oklahoma, where we don't have a lot of sanctioned tournaments, so I didn't have much experience. And I read about this certified referee program, which um at the time it was really hard. 70% of people were failing, and you got two chances to pass this certified test. 70% were failing. So, okay, that's a pretty tough test. I like a challenge, so I I did it and I passed. Being good looking probably didn't have anything to do with it, but I was I guess I got lucky with, you know, and there is luck involved in in that process to some degree. But nowadays we've got a very rigid, very delineated training program for referees, and you become a level one referee, meaning you know how to put people in place and you know how to call a score and a lot of stuff, you just don't have a lot of experience. After a lot of practice um refing matches, you can assess for a level two, which is you're you're good, you just don't have all the experience that a certified ref maybe has. So the more often you see things happen, the more chance you're going to have to say, Oh, I saw this happen two years ago. Here's what I did wrong then, here's how I'll handle it now. After a level two, if you decide to go on to be a certified ref, you get a lot more training, you get a mentor, you go through simulated matches, you finally take the test, which is you ref um three matches at least at a at a under the supervision of an evaluator. There's only six evaluators, I think, in the US or in the world, well, in the universe. And um so you know, there's some things that you've got to do right, or you fail immediately, or and then it's a point system, but you don't get to mess up very much. So if you see someone who's a certified ref, they know they know what they are doing. So you can you can trust that. Not that we never make mistakes. I've made so many mistakes, I've got patents on two of my mistakes. So when someone else does them, I get paid for it. So that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00: 9:16

What attribute makes a really good ref that we might not even notice?

SPEAKER_03: 9:22

Um good eyes, good eyesight is not one of them. No, it actually is. We have to take a visual acuity test every year, and so we've all got good eyesight. Um and then confidence, um, attention to detail um would be probably the the two largest because when you're refing, especially nowadays. Now, when I started reffing, people were playing for plastic metals. Now they're playing for$100,000 paydays. So they they can get excited about things that you do or things that you say or things that they think you should have seen. So you know you've got to be confident um in your decisions, and you've got to know you've got to know the rules, the procedures, what you should say, what you shouldn't say, and and know that you're going to do it to the best of your ability. And so that that's probably a a huge huge part of it.

SPEAKER_02: 10:31

I'm always amazed when the ref notices foot fault into the kitchen. Right. Because there's so much going on, it's like, wow, how are you keeping your eye on the kitchen line and also everything else that's going on?

SPEAKER_03: 10:45

It's because we don't pay attention to all the other stuff going on.

SPEAKER_02: 10:49

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 10:52

That sounds that sounds strange, but we've got 11 priorities, I guess, 11 tasks that we are supposed to take care of. Number 11 is helping with line calls. So it's way down on our list of responsible things, and that's something strange in the pickleball world. But number five or number six is watching the no volley zone, and that's because no one watches the no volley zone, and it can be a huge difference maker in the game. So, um, so that is our priority. Now, as you become a better ref, as you get more experience, you realize that if these guys at the baseline hit a drop shot and it bounces, then you can watch the the uh the returning team who's at the no-volley zone, you can watch them return the ball. You can watch to see where the ball goes. So um, so experience is something that that helps there, just knowing when you can watch and when you can't watch.

SPEAKER_02: 11:58

So you have to be a good multitasker.

SPEAKER_03: 12:02

You've got to be a pretty good multitasker, yeah. For sure.

SPEAKER_00: 12:05

Well, and like really understand the game and think and be thinking ahead, like you're saying. Well, they just hit it's just as if you're playing.

SPEAKER_03: 12:13

Yep, yep. Yeah. Um, and you know, that's that comes with experience also in knowing in being a player. I think being a player definitely helps a referee. There's there's a few referees who aren't players, um, which I think is kind of unusual, but um, but being a player, you can think to yourself, oh, that shot is going wide, so this player running over here is going to try an ATP, and I need to step out of the way, I need to watch this, I need to watch that, um, you know, all sorts of things, right?

SPEAKER_02: 12:50

Yeah, and an ATP for those who might not know means that you hit the ball around the pole rather than over the net, but it goes into the court on the other side, and it's still a good shot. Those are your really, really exciting. So you are an international traveler. In fact, Ruth Rosenquist, one of our heroes, uh, introduced us to you, and she said, I don't know if he's gonna have any uh openings to be able to meet with you guys, and thank you so much that you are having this conversation with us.

SPEAKER_03: 13:21

I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02: 13:23

She also mentioned that there is a story about Madagascar. She was with you, and can you share that story?

SPEAKER_03: 13:31

So I get requests from around the world to come teach referees, and I got a request from Madagascar, which is a large island off the east coast of Africa, down around South Africa. Um, and they said, Can you come ref our national tournament? And I'm like, Well, I was going to be in Egypt anyway, so that's not close to Madagascar, but it's closer than Oklahoma is. So I said, you know, sure, okay, that'll be that'll be cool. Um, tell me about it, tell me how many players you have, um, and you know, we'll go from there. Well, the guy wouldn't answer me and wouldn't answer me and wouldn't answer me. And finally, while I was in Egypt, I said, you know, I I just don't think I can come. There was a big tournament in Portugal that wanted me also, and I said, I just don't think I'm going to be able to come. But and he said, Well, I've told everyone that you're going to be here, and um, so I'll lose a lot of face if you don't come. Well, I don't want anyone to lose any face. I said, Okay, I'll come. So I fly down to Madagascar, catch the flight over to the city where it's going to be. When I get there, they have a tennis court that they're using as their pickleball court. So they've lowered the net to the right size, and that's it. They've got four paddles that they play with, and then they pass it on to the next player, and they were playing it like tennis. So they understood the no-volley zone, the kitchen, but they understood that you weren't supposed to be in there, but they didn't know why, and they didn't know how they weren't supposed to be, and all this stuff. So I spent three days teaching them to play the sport, and then we had their national tournament with 13 players. So we had one court and we got them out there and they played, and I refed and we had a good time. We had a great time, actually. And um one of the days I asked the guy, I said, So do you do you know who I am at all? And he goes, No, I I don't I don't know you at all. I said, Okay, so why did you think that I would come do this? He says, Oh, because my friend in Zambia, he said you would. I said, Oh, okay, well, it's good enough for me. I mean, he was obviously right. Here I am.

SPEAKER_00: 16:10

One part I loved about that story that you didn't say, Ron, is where you stayed when you were in Madagascar.

SPEAKER_03: 16:16

Yeah, so so I told the guy, I said, you know, the only thing I require is accommodations. It can be a cheap hotel room, it can be a couch, it doesn't matter. And he goes, Oh, well, we built you a house. I'm like, okay, I don't know what that means, but okay, you know, if if I've got a bed, I'm I'm okay. So I get there and they've built me a casita, a small house, one bedroom, one bath, but it's brand new and it's it smells of like paint. I said, Am I the first one to ever stay here? And he goes, I was painting when your plane was landing at the airport. I was picking up the painting. Oh my gosh. And it was really nice. It was really, really super nice. So there you go. I'm sure they're going to let other people stay there.

SPEAKER_02: 17:09

So but you got the debut, uh debut visit.

SPEAKER_03: 17:17

I'm the father of pickleball in Madagascar. So there you go.

SPEAKER_02: 17:20

Oh. In fact, you're probably the father of many countries, certainly certain areas. What what are some of your most meaningful or poignant experiences? I mean, that was really sweet, the Madagascar one.

SPEAKER_03: 17:34

But do you have others that that was that was very cool. Um so I went to Ghana also in Africa um to ref there. Uh they the African Games are essentially the Olympics for countries in Africa. And we had 14 countries um come to Ghana. Uh, one of the countries traveled by bus um during the day and hid in the uh forest at night and then rode the bus the next day. Um, you know, one of the teams, I thought, man, they've got nice Selkirk paddles. That's really surprising to me. But then I noticed that what they had done was they'd taken plywood, cut out paddles, and pasted a Selkirk logo or something, logo copy on it. And um, so they were playing with those. And I always take paddles with me, so we donated paddles to them. Um, and you know, they had 60 competitors, something like that. It took us three days. There were a couple of hours at a time when no one was on a court because we were trying to figure out the brackets, but but everyone was having such a good time. And the funny thing was that to me it was funny, but they had uh National Guard type security around um so that there wasn't trouble. And Ghana is a very peaceful country, they don't have problems, but they didn't want there to be problems, so they had National Guard people there, probably about 15 guys and girls. And as as the players were coming up and taking pictures with me, because they made a big deal out of who I who I am was, uh, and then these National Guard people started coming up and wanting selfies with me, having absolutely no idea who I am. Obviously important because everyone else is taking a picture with me. I have no idea who he is, but he's really important.

SPEAKER_02: 19:58

He had the final word in the game that's important. He introduced uh Ghana to pick a ball, right?

SPEAKER_03: 20:11

He's the one that made a big deal out of who I think.

SPEAKER_02: 20:14

I bet he did. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03: 20:16

That is he is a super, super cool guy.

SPEAKER_00: 20:20

Well, now I want to be a ref and travel the world.

SPEAKER_02: 20:23

I like people to like me too much. It would be hard for me to be mad at me.

SPEAKER_03: 20:27

That's one thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 20:30

I think you know, if someone out there is thinking about uh wanting to be a ref after hearing your inspiring story, how do they go about that? What should they and are there a need for a lot of refs?

SPEAKER_03: 20:43

Yeah, in the States, we've really got this program up and running, so we've got a lot of refs, but USAP has changed the sanctioning rules for um for tournaments. And so even though there's an expansion of tournaments, they're using fewer and fewer referees per tournament, and so you can still find work. Most people try and do it so that they break even, and that's becoming more and more possible. Now, when I started, um I got two dollars for a year or so, and then I got a promotion, I got five dollars, and so I'm sure that when I pass, my children are gonna be like, What in the heck? I thought there was gonna be money left over. Sorry, kids, not gonna be. They could actually reach out to USAP and ask, and we will refer them on to someone local to them uh who will start the process and and we'll go from there.

SPEAKER_02: 21:48

Are you still playing or do you only riff?

SPEAKER_03: 21:51

Oh, I played uh two times yesterday, once in Kansas City and then once in Edmond. So when I do road trips, I um I plan them so that I can play in places where I know that there's good open play. And we all we, you know, I think if you're really a fanatic about it, I was in Albuquerque driving to Los Angeles, and I thought, oh, and this was several years ago. Albuquerque's got good open drop-in play now, but at the time they didn't. And I thought, where where can I go? And this was at 10 o'clock at night. I'm like, Surprise Arizona has the best open play, so I drove eight hours overnight so that I could play at Surprise Arizona in August early in the morning.

SPEAKER_02: 22:37

Early in the morning. Oh you are a fanatic. Yeah, you're an avid player.

SPEAKER_03: 22:45

I like splaying the joy.

SPEAKER_02: 22:47

Yeah, that is so cool. Well, my goodness, and you continue to just jump on planes and go wherever you're being asked to go, and you are taking the rules with you. You're teaching people how to play who have never played before, you're helping those who are excellent at the game stay excellent because of your awesome refing. You have such an amazing reputation, Ron, not just for being handsome, but also for being a good referee.

SPEAKER_03: 23:14

And the handsome will go away over time.

SPEAKER_02: 23:18

I doubt it.

SPEAKER_03: 23:19

Referee will remember.

SPEAKER_02: 23:21

But in all of your adventures on and off the court, have you gleaned some life lessons that you can share?

SPEAKER_03: 23:29

First off, I posted once on Facebook, and I've been a heavy user of Facebook. I'm kind of getting away from it now. Uh, but but I posted, what has pickleball done for your life? And I said, for me, it's helped my reflexes. I mean, if I got on a street fight and someone pulled out a pickleball, I'd be ready for it. So, but 99% of the people said their social life, and especially for an older generation, um, you know, there's so many of them that would have just been sitting at home watching the price is right or you know, whatever, and now, and now they're out playing a sport. You know, they're not running 100-yard dashes, but they're they're playing a sport, they're engaged, they're living life, they've got something to look forward to. Um, and and that's amazing to me, absolutely just stunning. There's not another sport in the world, you know, people go, oh, paddle, it's going to be the next big sport. Well, I've never seen a 60-year-old taking up paddle. I've never seen a nine-year-old taking up paddle. I've never seen four generations of players on a court, on any court, playing any sport. And I've seen that multiple times in pickleball. Um, I've got a friend in our club, 92 years old. He is actually passed now, but someone said, So, how when are you gonna quit? And he said, Why would I quit? I'm 92 and I'm playing now. Is something going to happen that I'm not going to be able to keep playing? So, and and that's that's right, you know, he didn't run down lobs, but if you hit it near him, he would return it. So, and then you know, teamwork, um, you know, just feeling good about yourself. You learn a lot about yourself. If the ball lands on the line and you call it out, you should have just learned something about yourself. And not not to the best, not to the best. So, you know, there's just so many things that um that pickleball does that probably unique to pickleball, I think.

SPEAKER_02: 25:58

And especially your experience of all over the world. I know that different tribes, different faiths, different cultures, even in the states, of course, we're not uh maybe we are tribal now, sadly. But I think that would be safe. But overseas for sure, um, that blending uh that you would not expect, and wait, maybe there was never any other opportunity that that pickleball provides. Right. I just so inspired.

SPEAKER_03: 26:27

Well, uh in Ghana, 14 countries came. Um, never a crossword between anyone, everyone had a great time. Wow. Um, yeah. Iran asked me to come teach them to referee. Oh. Uh, my wife wouldn't let me. Oh, because she's the smart one in the family, but they were like, come, you know, and and so we're we're working on things uh around the world um to get it. So where's your next trip? Uh let's see, I will be going to the Philippines uh in November, but even before then, Croatia, Eastern Europe are um on the table as far as just figuring out details. Uh Malta wants me to come, and I want to go to Malta. So uh yeah, there's I can I can go at the drop of a hat.

SPEAKER_02: 27:24

So wow, fantastic. We just had a guest on our show, Smiley Riley Palmer. Yeah, Smiley. Yeah, so she has the floating pickleball courts, and there's one right on the coast of Croatia, so maybe you'll have a chance to play on that too.

SPEAKER_03: 27:39

She goes to Greece pretty well.

SPEAKER_02: 27:41

Yeah, fantastic. Well, thank you. And how can people find you online?

SPEAKER_03: 27:47

Um, Ron Ponder, well, online email is ronponder at hopmail.com. And I get questions from around the world daily about rules. So anytime you've got a question about rules, you can find me on Facebook, Ron Ponder. You can find me on Messenger, um, Ron Ponder, um, the email, and yeah, I'm I'm out there. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 28:14

Thank you. Thank you for everything you're doing. Oh my gosh, the all the travels and the way you're bringing the world together under this amazing, silly little game that's changing us.

SPEAKER_03: 28:23

It's not like it's a burden. I get to play football, so so there is that.

SPEAKER_02: 28:30

Well, thank you. Thank you, and thank you all for tuning in. Great to have you joining us. Please share this. Yeah, and if you're interested in refing, check it out and be kind to the refs who are refing. I mean, that's a big commitment on their part, and we really appreciate what they're doing to make our games as fair as possible. So thank you all, and we look forward to a new conversation next week. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_00: 28:54

Bye-bye. If you love our podcast, we'd be so grateful if you'd take a few seconds to follow or subscribe to Life Lessons from Pickleball. This ensures you'll never miss an episode and helps us continue these wonderful conversations.

SPEAKER_02: 29:08

On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, go to the show page and tap the follow button in the top right corner. And on YouTube, click the subscribe button under any of the episodes. Thanks so much. Hope to see you on the court.