SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Hi, I'm Shelley Maurer. And I'm Cher Emmerich. Welcome to Life Lessons from Pickleball. Where we engage with pickleball players from around the world about life on and off the court. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_01: 0:15

Welcome everyone to Life Lessons from Pickleball. We're so glad you're joining us today, and you're going to be so glad to be joining us today, too, because our guest is Sean McCoy. Sean, you're a proud dad and husband, born and raised in Houston, Texas, and you've lived a full life. Military service, oil and gas, technology, entrepreneurship, and a whole lot of travel along the way.

SPEAKER_02: 0:42

You've also spent years serving on boards and giving back to your community, including the Greater Houston Pickleball Association. And now you're getting ready to graduate with your master's in clinical mental health counseling, which you jokingly say took you 50 years to figure out.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07

And you talk about how this sport brings people together like nothing else, certainly our experience too, and how nine-year-olds and 90-year-olds can play side by side, and how powerful that can be for communication, connection, and well-being.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24

So, Sean, we're excited to dig into all that today. But let's start with what was going on in your life when you were introduced to pickleball?

SPEAKER_03: 1:33

Yeah, it's uh it's it's like a lot of people. Um, it was by accident. It wasn't something I'd never heard of pickleball before, had no idea that it existed. My actually, my some a couple friends of ours, a couple that husband and wife that are really good friends with my wife and I. Uh, my wife and her bought uh off Amazon, just one of those they'd heard of it in somewhere on Instagram, maybe. Sat some some some rack and some paddles sat in our garage for, I don't think like a month. And then just so happens where I live in Houston, I live in a really nice suburb, we have two fully dedicated pickleball courts, lighted, proper, beautiful, that are the result of a bunch of people in the neighborhood who spent probably two years uh lining off tennis courts, raising, you know, getting the HOA to believe in it. We just happened to happen to catch the right time. A friend of mine invited me to go play. I had a couple of paddles, showed up. There was probably about seven, eight of us guys that I knew, and we started playing pickleball. Got you know, got destroyed by a couple of guys. These guys were D1 athletes, they were tall, and it just seemed like we couldn't do anything. We couldn't do anything to beat them. It was like this running game where they just stayed on the court the whole time, and we just kept trying to beat them in pairs the first couple of times I played. But there was something, uh, I've been an athlete my whole life. I used uh back when I was in the military, when I was younger, you know, sports has always been an outlet for me and a way to connect with people. It has that, there's a power in that in that play, which is the kind of the baseline of sports. And I had not played anything like this. Uh, I mean, the next sport I can kind of get close to it that I had this kind of connection with was probably hockey, roller hockey in the Navy, where you could uh play with that. But it all sports tend to have a basic skill set that you kind of have to have to get in there. You gotta be able to skate to play hockey, you gotta be able to dribble to play soccer, you gotta be able to dribble to play basketball. And a lot of times the physicality of it doesn't uh open itself up for the level of um, I guess, egalitarianism or just uh ease barrier to entry that that a pickleball does. And at the time, I'd spent probably four straight years, uh, started the pandemic, uh, right around the pandemic, right before uh mountain biking, at least mountain biking in Houston. We don't have mountains here. But we have but we have trails that you can get some pretty good, you get some, it's really more like trail riding, intense trail riding. I was doing that and loved it, was doing it six days a week. Um, but and it was you know, it's beautiful to go out in the in the woods, get lost in nature and sunsets and sunrises and the animals. Uh, but it's very much an isolated thing. Even if you ride with people, it's kind of this thing at the end, you kind of talk about it. Um, but here was this silly sport that I was just like, you know, where's this been all my life? You know, like kind of like, and it just it just went from there. Um, I just want to play every day. I just want to keep playing and playing. And um, and then you could invite anybody, and then anybody came and everybody came. And and I stopped, I stopped mountain biking like I was, uh, and then just kept playing this silly little game. And one of probably the most profound moment was when I thought to myself, all right, I'm kind of a nerd this way. I was like, surely this thing just started a couple years ago. Like that I would have I would have definitely heard of this sport before. And I look it up in 1965 out of Pacific Northwest, and I'm thinking, this sport has been around since before I was born. And I'm like, what is taking so long for this beautiful thing to find me? Like, oh my goodness. So that was kind of how I got started. And then from there, like a lot of people, I had we had our just the the the jokes on Instagram are real, right? You have your group of people that you know from their first name, and they're your pickleball people. And and the beautiful thing about it, which ties into what y'all were leading to in the beginning, it didn't matter who it was, it didn't matter, you didn't care, guy, gal, short, tall, young, old, you didn't care about socioeconomics, you don't care about religion, you know, you're not it's like, hey man, you want to hit this other little ball over a net? Uh yeah, you want to do it together, you got time, let's go. And from there, it was just, you know, finding more and more people like that, people that you knew, you know, like friends of yours. Hey, man, you want to come out and play? And it really does remind me of that sentiment that I think we lose when we're kids, and that is we just want to go play. I mean, what the power to play catch with somebody, the plow, the power to just play. And here's this game that allows you to do that. And then from there, the typical things, you know, got better, started knocking those guys off the court, started getting better than those guys, um, really got into it, started watching all the videos, you know, who's this Ben Johns guy? And oh my gosh, who the heck is Annalie Waters and where did she come from? And you started learning all these names, right? And um then we said then we, you know, there was a lifetime fitness, had a tournament, and so the this other guy and I, they were like, you know, y'all should go play. We we did our first foray out into the into the into the competitive world. Although I'm not real big on tournaments and and leagues like that, I'm just kind of like the play side. Um, but it was a chance to go out and see what it was like with everybody else. And so we got second place, we didn't win it, but it was a brilliant, it was a brilliant, like fun, you know, just to go out and see what everybody else does. And then from there it just kind of exploded in the and then Houston area exploded in the last couple years, and uh and uh yeah, just I'm kind of a nut like the rest of us.

SPEAKER_04: 6:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 6:42

Wow. Well, you said, you know, how you thought the game had only started recently, and we live in the Seattle area, Shelly and I each she's on Mercer Island, I'm in Kirkland. And Mainbridge Island, where it started, is just around the corner from us, you know, just a neighbor. I didn't know until two years ago about pickleball. So you mentioned that that pickleball is egalitarian. Yeah. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_03: 7:12

Uh well, I mean, it's it's it doesn't require uh well, I think think the sport, the way the rules are set. When I tell people, like if you really get into the way that the people, however, whoever they started this thing understood uh, how can I put it like the balance. Like we talked about sports. If you're super tall and big, you're like a Shaquille O'Neal, uh, you're gonna be, you know, basketball is a little bit easier for you. Like I think it's like what 5% of all people over seven feet tall have played in the NBA, um, or something like that. But it just there's certain sports. If you're fast, uh if you're athletic, if you're whatever, um, or you tend to be able to play really well, the game can tend to favor those types of folks. Whoever invented uh pickleball, I think did everything they could to make it as equal and as as opportunistic for both sides with the rules, the way the game is played. Um, just the non-volley zone. I mean, whatever because if not, the two guys, even though the two guys I mentioned before could stand up there and still get that, but they allow for this game to let's slow that down and let's you can you're playing fast and hard and banging, but you can also slow it down. And here's this dink thing, and you can't you just can't go up there and bum rush the net and take over. Having played a lot of aggressive sports and stuff like that. I mean, that's kind of the temperament. You just kind of find that you know you kind of take the the center lane and just kind of run with somebody who's talented or something like that, and you can kind of just a picture can dominate a baseball game kind of thing. Whereas whoever whoever was thinking about this game, what I really loved about the approach was they thought, how can I make this as equitable as possible? And we see it in the way that it's played and who gets to play. I mean, just I mean, I'm a member of a club around here, and just this week I played uh a buddy of mine and I, he's in his 40s, I'm in my early 50s, played against two kids that were one kid was 13, one kid was nine, and had some amazing games with them that were legitimately competitive, like we were playing at our level, and they're playing at the same level as us. I mean, where else, right? I mean, or it can be I or I played in Jackson Hole on vacation last summer, after the last two years, last three years I've played up there when we go. And I'm playing against women that are you know 20 years older than me, and it's three of them and me, and we're having a competitive, wonderful game. I mean, where else? And what other medium of any kind can you can you combine the the physical and the physicality of the sport of it that's fun to play? And then it's in it's intimate. I tell people this all the time. I'm like, look, it's an intimate sport, it's social, it's communal. You're gonna be along these people, and you and it's just the and it's the frequency of it and how it balanced, and it's all these things. And I say if you can hit a if you can hit a woofball with a frying pan over a net, you can play pickleball. At least you can start, right? Right, right. So from right, and so from there, now look, there's you get into the parts where it becomes more and more competitive, but even if you don't back to the egalitarian nature, what a beautiful thing to say is a bunch of 3-0 people that are um you know not that great, they can still play. Or, like, I mean, the wonderful work that Anna's doing uh on the that we see in the in our group and that you have on your show, like disabled vets, people that are are you know that are uh not not as able, I forget the exact terms, I don't want to offend, but not as able-bodied. Like it's it is trying so hard to allow for everybody the chance to kind of just play. So, I mean, to me, it just becomes what's not the love about that, as far as this, the whole medium. Yeah. Maybe that's why we're so passionate about it.

SPEAKER_02: 10:32

Yeah, we are. Well, what with all the chapters you've lived in your life, the military, the tech, the oil and gas, you know, you're an entrepreneur. Like, how have all these experiences, how do they shape the way that you play and are on the court?

SPEAKER_03: 10:47

Uh well, I'll tell you, um, having traveled quite a bit, at one point I worked for an oil and gas company here in Houston. It's called Schlumberger, it's one of the biggest in the world. It's a what they call an upstream oil field services company. Um, we have that in common.

SPEAKER_02: 11:00

I worked for them too.

SPEAKER_03: 11:01

Oh, you did? Okay. So there's always find somebody who worked for Big Blue, right? And there's always one of us around somewhere. Yeah. If you if you touch the oil and gas industry, like somebody, yeah, so there you go. I was on the DM side, worked in LWD and all that stuff. So we can talk about that later. But um, but if you know, if you know from that, I remember there was one time in our campus in Sugarland, and you know the Sugarland campus is one of the biggest, if not the premier, um, location for the because they moved the headquarters from Europe in the early 1930s here to Houston. And up on the board, as we were leaving, there was this TV, and this is back early 2000s, there were 54 uh nationalities represented in the people that were working at that campus at that time.

SPEAKER_04: 11:39

Wow.

SPEAKER_03: 11:40

And I don't mean, like, I don't mean like four generations ago, their dad came over on a boat, their granddad came over on a boat, that makes me Irish, you know, that kind of thing. These are people that were from 54 nationalities, right?

SPEAKER_04: 11:52

Wow.

SPEAKER_03: 11:52

And so as you and you get in the business world, and as you know, uh sheriff from from especially in the oil and gas industry, or you can go to pick your medical or wherever now, technology, when you meet people from other places, it's that same old adage we hear. Like it's just a beautiful mix. Yes, people are different. Yes, they they may they may eat different foods, they may have different religions or political or different viewpoints on things, but it's more about finding that thing in common. And when you've worked alongside of people, like in a professional setting, and you have experienced that, and you've not only experienced it in your hometown, but when you've gone to their country and broke bread over there, I think there's an appreciation for that, of what how that enriching that is. And I think that that's one of the things I love about pickleball is because it it complements that. I mean, there are people that I played with, so I'm a member of a place called Pickleball Country Club, it's in the southwest side over here. Um, it's not near as fancy as it sounds, it's just the name of it, but it's great. 13 courts. And there's people I played with for the last seven, eight months, um, or the first seven, eight months, and then you find out, oh, they're a lawyer, or they were a doctor, or or they uh you know they they own a chain of restaurants. There's one guy I found out that was owns all these restaurants. People go, I is I his the same as Itamar. I don't I don't know him as that, and I don't, I mean, no offense, I don't care. He doesn't care. But when you do eventually have sit down and talk to them, it just enhances what it is that makes them special. And look, and you can tell, you can understand nationalities in Houston. One of the things I'm really proud of too, which is kind of a uh an extension of that, is that Houston is the most ethnically diverse city in the United States, and there's there's a really important distinction around that. What I mean by that. What's important to understand about ethnic diversity is it doesn't mean 95% is white, and then we have 5% of one of everything. There is no ethnic majority in the city.

SPEAKER_04: 13:42

Well, no kidding for that.

SPEAKER_03: 13:44

Right, right, and same with the county I live in. So there's no there's so the the the typical like there's no there's it's 40% or it's all below 50%. Wow. So you're not so what and what that does culturally, the enrichment of it is kind of like you see it play out in pickleball. I can play with three Vietnamese, you know, women who played uh in tennis in high school, and now this is their kind of their chance to play again because they tapped out in college or whatever else, right? And they just want to go out there and play, or I could be playing against, so it's not just gender and things like that or age. I mean, it's people from all kinds of backgrounds, especially in a city like Houston. And it just isn't, I mean, it matters, but it doesn't matter. Like you notice, but you don't care, and so especially with our current climate, which has not been all that different, but just it's so exacerbated around finding whatever this thing is that makes us that starts to differentiate worth between two groups of people, how we and the idea of you know dividing based on two things, one one one idea and two ideas or one topic and one two perspectives on it, is so unfortunately limiting. It's human back to the psychology side, and it's what we do, but we also have the power and the opportunity to look past that. So we need some sort of medium and share. You know, this from so business room, business meeting, you can get that experience and that chance to go past the initials. You know, I can't pronounce your name and I don't know where you're from, to well, we're working together, we're coming alongside, we we talk about each other's families or our experiences. Kickleball allows that to happen too, which gives us the opportunity to go beyond that. So again, kind of like to double down, and then it's you know, it's physically active and it's psychologically simulating, and it's it, it's uh it checks all the boxes. And so, yeah, so I I'm a fan.

SPEAKER_01: 15:29

In fact, you're about to become a licensed counselor yourself. What inspired you to make that move?

SPEAKER_03: 15:35

Yeah, this well, things can get real interesting here, but I'll tell you, it was um it was a heroic dose of magic mushrooms. That's what that's what moved it, which is a whole nother story, but yes.

SPEAKER_01: 15:45

Oh, I would love to hear that story.

SPEAKER_03: 15:48

I I I I am not like I like I'm not I don't even drink. I haven't drink, I don't even drink caffeinated coffee. Um, I was always the good boy growing up uh back in 2000 or 2022, after studying this for about five, six years of uh ayahuasca and DMT and 5MAO and all the rest of these things, inspired by a group uh by a guy Graham Hancock, who I listened to on a podcast, who was uh an astute journalist, and he was talking about archaeology and anthropology and how um not the boarding, but like how the the civilizations in North and South America go beyond the Clovis period from 13,600 years ago and making all these arguments, and now he's got this special on Netflix. But he seemed, I mean, he wasn't what I would consider somebody who used uh substances to escape, and it's no offense to that, but just people deal with coping mechanisms in different ways. That wasn't one of mine, a lot of addiction in my family. And um here's this guy, and all of a sudden he's just like, Oh, yeah, but I've done like 76 ayahuasca retreats. And I'm thinking, what is that about? Like, what do you what are you like? That was not what I was expecting to hear. So I again read documentaries and podcasts and books and tried to understand it. And then um I experienced went off on my own, and one of my big takeaway from that, one of my big takeaways from that experience, and it to preclude that a little bit in the psychedelic world, especially around magic mushrooms, that's like going all the way, that's like going super high. Like you typically wouldn't recommend somebody to start out with that, and I did, but it was so it was a really, really intense experience. Um but the one one of the prime, if not the primary takeaway, was to go back to school to do this, and that was in July. I started my program in October 2022, and I'll graduate um in the spring of next year. So that's where I'm at.

SPEAKER_01: 17:32

Awesome. Wow. I wondered if maybe it was military-oriented. I know that many uh vets with PTSD have had remarkable healing using different kinds of psychedelic medicines.

SPEAKER_03: 17:45

I mean I mean technology yes, I mean the the the mental health industry is getting is going underneath an evolution right now between two things, ironically, that are nothing close to each other. Um is psychedelic medicines, and I could talk forever about that, but the other one is technology. So, I mean, and not only that, but there are, I don't know if you've this is just there's a company down in Australia that I know of run by a medical doctor with uh you know research-based, and they're using virtual reality for psychedelic trips to do sit-in-setting, to combine those two worlds for for a uh for for therapeutic purposes. So, to me, the opportunity not only to get in that industry, but at a time where you have these burgeoning all you know, they're called alternative medicines, but they're ancient medications that could help people in different ways. To your point, I'm very well aware that on the PTSD side and the vets, especially. I was very fortunate. My time in was 92 to 98, by the way. The best I was ever treated. This I was in in the early 90s before it was cool to be in the military. The number one place where people treated like I nobody ever treated me like this in the military was at the Seattle Rose Festival. You know, you know that. Yeah, so I have a special heart, but Seattle was the one place when I was in because it was never cool when I was in, to be honest. Nobody ever wore your uniform. We didn't go out in town, there's nobody clapping for us in the airports. That was never my experience. But the one place where people were like, hey, we love y'all, y'all are great, was at the Rose Festival of Seattle. Um I went, it was '96 or '97. I think it was '97.

SPEAKER_01: 19:12

Oh, that's good to hear. It's always wonderful.

SPEAKER_03: 19:15

It was, it was great. But but I'm also very well aware of you know what's been like since post-9-11, right? And it's just, it's, it's, it's, it's, uh, you know, it's just it's gut wrenching. But I also think in addition to that, I mean, just the the understanding of mental health in general and how that's moving forward, and how we're opening the door, because these extenuating circumstances, I shouldn't say extenuating, extreme experiences. Trauma is the word we use a whole lot. You, it's it can be overused and and kind of misunderstood, but these extenuating circumstances that are extremely difficult for people to process can definitely be the result of combat. It can be physical, sexual assault, it can be from just life in general. And then we have a group of we have a population that is suffering in so many. Different ways. So, whether it's so to me, it's like psychedelics, pickleball, whatever. I'm I'm for whatever it takes to connect with people and bring them in. And we need a multidimensional um approach to it. It's not just a silver bullet that one thing is going to make them all better. Uh, but that but it's a it's a burgeoning industry, it's a burgeoning field. Uh, I can't wait. And I definitely think that pickleball has a strong presence uh in the world. Yeah, that's I want you to talk.

SPEAKER_02: 20:27

I want to hear your thoughts on that because you I know you're you're you're thinking about using pickleball in your therapy and like I imagining like what that looks like and what type of people do you really think that's gonna help the most. Sure.

SPEAKER_03: 20:41

Well, I think the first first place, um, anybody in relationships, especially couples, right? Now it's always the joke of treatment with the same jokes where you are, right? Right. So I mean, whenever I whenever because there's I know lots of husbands and wives that play. I mean, more than one, I'm sure, as you do. Now, the joke may be that they never play together so that they stay married, but but I mean, so imagine doing a retreat over a weekend with six or seven couples, you go to a place and you're and you especially for I think not to be generic, but especially for guys, but for anybody, we don't know each other, but if you can use pickleball as a chance for like a couple of days going through a bunch of games at the end of that, and you're swapping partners the beautiful thing about pickleball. It's not that you're stuck with your spouse. You can play with them and you're playing with somebody else, and you're playing against them, you're playing over here, right? It's the beauty of it. You're playing you're mixing and matching all the time. You're not just stuck with one kind of group and you can only stay with them. It's not your five rolling in the gym to play basketball. You can take and play with everybody. Um, that back to the egalitarian side. So then, and then do so in such a way, because it because pickleball is requiring you, right, to, because it is egalitarian, you can't just doesn't just make right. There's a soft, there's a finesse, and there's a hard. Um, one of the basic ways, how do you deal with like line calls? How do you deal with you know allowing for rule interpretations by the other team? And what does that do? What is that, what is the anxiety like of wanting to perform well with somebody else? What's the the anxiety like when somebody does something you don't like? Or, you know, we typically don't have that in pickleball, but every once in a while, like how do you, what's the etiquette of the unwritten rules? How does that work? And be able to take some of those circumstances, any of those circumstances that happen. But if you and I, you and I have a great point or we have a great time playing together, we may even lose, but we we fought back hard, we were down, you know, nine to two and came back and ended losing like 11 to 8. We're gonna remember that. So my argument is later when we're sitting around a campfire, we're sitting around an opportunity to kind of talk about things for more that are difficult to talk about, the opportunity to have that conversation is improved, the quality of that conversation is improved because there's just something that happens around the trust and the integrated intimacy side when you're playing pickleball with somebody that just I think allows for that. It doesn't guarantee it, just like psychedelics doesn't guarantee that you're going to become cured out of panacea, but it provides an opportunity that I think is greater than without. And so couples uh could do it could be just uh could be just guys, it could be just gals, it could be any kind of group, it could be teens with adults. You can really create that that medium from a psychotherapeutic standpoint and get real, real creative, but using those same basic premises that allow for those people to talk. I mean, think about how how much I mean we talk about all this boomers, Gen X, Gen Z, millennials, nobody likes each other because we were born in a certain decade. I mean, would it be no offense, but just I think it's nonsense. I mean, I understand the premise of it, but fundamentally, like you gotta be kidding me because it's like it's like zodiac science. Yeah, I understand some certain things, but like, you know, like let's and we can we can allude to that in there in Gen Z, Gen X, boomers, there's some inherent things that are generically understood by those people. It's different for you. We experience 9-11 in real time. People that don't, um, that didn't can't quite relate, but there's but they that doesn't mean they're stupid and ignorant and can't relate to it. You just got to find some other way to communicate. And so by having this chance to run around on a silly court and chase a ball, I mean, think how ridiculous it is in some level. You're chasing you, you're like a dog in a park, right? You're like it's just a little wiffle ball, and you're willing to like run into a net, you're willing to like jump, run around. I would never run like that in usual. I I don't like to run away. I mean, no, maybe I mean it's these things where like you, but you're willing to go, you're you're willing to jump, run around all the things. I can get that ball back over. Great, great, great. Sounds great. You got my back, recovering over here. Well, it's you and a you and a young person, or you and an older person, or you and somebody just like you or not like you, and then you're doing it against them and with them. There just becomes this really interesting social dynamic, which I think bordered a lot, borders on you know, community, um, you know, true connection, something that you have in common that you can draw from that then allows you when we talk about these bigger topics, because these bigger topics are hard, right? There's these how to what do we do uh at the dinner time? We can't even, we're the point now where the joke is you can't even have Thanksgiving anymore without people wanting to, you know, like never talk to each other anymore. And and there's some there's some look, as I gotta throw my therapist out on, there are opportunity, there are situations where it is not conducive or healthy, or that you should you shouldn't be forced into the room with everybody. So don't it's not again, it's not a panacea, it's not something that oh, you just gotta go in, you gotta love your parents because you're supposed to. I'm talking about the the general, I guess the 80% where it's where it's possible, where it's it's a little bit more difficult. There are always, you know, nothing is is set in stone as far as that goes. But the opportunity to use pickleball in such a way that if you have in earnest and there is an opportunity to improve that relationship, improve your understanding of others. I mean, like I said, if you've experienced people um that just do something different, uh, and just a small quick example, if I can be short. Years ago, I remember I was talking to this guy in Canada and we were talking about the death penalty, and I'm from Texas, and it's like part of what we do, and I just kind of grown up that way, and we were talking, I was going back and forth about why I thought it was a good idea at the time, which I do not anymore. Um, but he just simply said to me, I just don't agree. And I kind of had this little voice in my head that was like, and why isn't that why isn't it okay for somebody just not to think the way that I do, right? Why is why is that and we just happen to be doing business together, so there's respect there. But without that, when somebody else says they don't think about something that you agree with, we tend to dismiss or we tend to like push to the side. But if it's your pickleball buddy or somebody you've spent some time with in that nature, maybe it allows for a little bit more um acceptance in that area.

SPEAKER_01: 26:22

So more grace. You know, when you uh it never I never thought about how pickleball could be utilized as a mental health treatment. And when you were talking about couples in particular, and certainly parents and kids too, and then you're mixing and matching partners, it'd be fascinating to then reflect on okay, who was I on the court when I was with my spouse? Who was I on the court when I was with somebody else? Why was it different? Why was I less critical of my the one that wasn't my spouse or vice versa, who knows? And then we have to communicate well with our partners on the court. It's yours, mine. And I I can just see all kinds of ways that you will utilize this game to open up in such a non-judgmental way, just kind of an observation way of who I am and how I am with my partner and what's really coming up for me when he steps in front of me and takes the ball or won't, you know, whatever, whatever. I just think that's a fascinating concept. I love that you're doing that.

SPEAKER_03: 27:34

So so keep going on that, Shelley, and think I mean how many times sorry, sorry, sorry, um, that's okay. That that it becomes a uh when the playing isn't quite as equitable. And you know, you have the opportunity to kind of you can either play our nature, especially in our country and our culture, is just dominate, overcome, you know, just full force. We just winning is all that matters. Second place is for losers, or like we live out the Ricky Bobby. Ricky Bobby is more of an autobiography than it is a fiction story for us. But the but the but the opportunity to change that dynamic in such a way that says, Hey, um I can still play. I don't have to just slam it down somebody's throat. What do I do if my my partner's not as good? Right? And how do I become the like we see in the mixed doubles on the pros here where the guy is just like get out of the way, you know, that kind of thing. Or do you pull how do you tone down the engine a little bit? Somebody who's hyper-aggressive, I mean, there's like you said, there's lots of ways you can take that and use that as an opportunity for them, especially if you do it timing-wise, if you're they start out that way because that's what they're told, but they kind of see, oh, that's not quite working out. Uh, maybe I should change that. And the next time they get on the court, maybe they're not quite as aggressive. And it's not that I'm trying to tell people to lose and be happy with it. It's just more of a this is again back to communal and social. You're gonna win games, you're gonna lose games. It's more teaching them how to engage in those opportunities. What do you do with somebody who you don't like? Like we're this all sounds great, but there are people we play with sometimes that we don't like. People that we play with that still annoy the heck out of us that they are there, they're just they just there's one guy I play with, I won't say his name. I play with him now for three straight years. He loves coming and playing with us. He's not changed his style. One Iota in three years, and he just plays his one one way, and you and you know how he's gonna say it, what he's gonna say, how he hits the ball, what he's not gonna do. It just never changes. And so you you have the opportunity. You can either like stiff arm and not do that, or kind of play. Well, we joke, we kind of pay the tax, play with him a few times. And then also, um, from a from a public, one of the things I love to do at our club is you know, ask somebody, is this their first time? Are you are you just a new player? I've been playing now for three years, and so and people know me, but like, what is like to first step into that place? And can you be intimidated, especially if you don't look, act sound, or not as good as somebody else? It's very easy in the sporting world to just kind of give up. So give them a chance. Don't go out there and just I mean, help them understand the game. Look at the things they're doing well, tell them the little things that you didn't know that people had to tell you. Oh, okay, that's what that's about. What is this thinking thing? How does the non-volley zone even work? But what's the strategy behind it? And what else can I do? What are the high points that you're doing? And it gives you a chance to kind of go back to the human side and do all that stuff. And so, yeah, I just yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 30:20

Your kind heart is is on your sleeve, and in fact, your kind heart is on your chest. Can you show us what the front of your sweatshirt says?

SPEAKER_03: 30:30

Sure, sure, sure. So it's a it's a shirt from a company called Live to Live or Live to Live or Live to Live.

SPEAKER_01: 30:37

Live to live, live to live to live or alive. L I be live to live is how you say it. Live to live. And it says in the front, you are enough, period. And then on the back, would you mind turning around? I want to read what's on the back.

SPEAKER_03: 30:52

Sure, sure, sure.

SPEAKER_01: 30:54

Dear person behind me, the world is a better place with you in it. Love from the person in front of you. Oh my gosh. That's such amazing. I just want to give a shout out, and that is just so much of who you're expressing yourself to be. This um really big-hearted, deep, intentioned person who is making this world a better place kind of makes me cry. Really sweet. I'm gonna get one of those sweatshirts too. You too. I love it. So, in all of your adventures, Sean, on and off the court, what are some life lessons that you have gleaned that you can share with us?

SPEAKER_03: 31:38

Uh from I mean, from a pickleball court, I think it I feel like a little bit of a broken record, but uh it's just the beauty of the variety of the human experience um and what and the chance that pickleball gives us to meet. I mean, just like listening to your all the episodes I've listened to so far, like each person is this is this kind of this flower in the in the uh in the shop, you know, or in the garden. It's just in its own way, wonderful and unique and and fun and and worth the time to kind of get to know. And so back to the egalitarian side, back to all that stuff, but that's one of the big lessons. And and that at the end in the end, it's it's life is a team sport. I said that for a long time. Um I love that that we we that we we tend to you know, we tend to isolate, we tend to tribal aspects and us versus them based on whatever criteria we want to come up with is is human. Um and I think having a little bit of grace to understand that then why that fear is there, this you know, you can see the same on the pickleball court, like, oh, I don't know if I want to play with these people, or do I really want to ask them, or I want to play one where I don't really want to share the court, I want to just play with my friends and and being able to um if if you can get past that and work through it and share the game and bring the game to others. I think that's like with our group, the pickleball changes lives that we're in, uh, to see this stuff that's happening, because it's not, I mean, it matters. It's kind of a little bit like the shirt says, You're enough. You're if you're a 3-0 player, you're enough. Uh, you know, if you're like if if you have Parkinson's and you and you play, uh, you're enough, right? I mean, how wonderful was that story? I mean, there's there's all these things that kind of just reiterate that because it's easy to get caught up and think that those things don't matter, right? So that that's what it that's why the biggest lesson that it's taught me for sure.

SPEAKER_01: 33:25

I'm really glad you've chosen the profession you're going into. Our world needs you, and the pickleball world needs you. And we're delighted that you're doing this. Thank you. How can people find you online?

SPEAKER_03: 33:38

Uh the easiest place right now is on LinkedIn, uh, just Sean McCoy. Um, that's where I am right now, pretty much. I don't have much of a social media presence, other than that. Um, I have a Facebook page and I go in there to look at it sometimes uh to look at videos and connect with certain groups, but it's it's a hard, that's a hard medium to navigate sometimes. It can be so it can be so difficult. It's like all of what I'm saying, you go there and you read some of the stuff and you're like, oh, maybe not. And so it's like no, but just it's it's it can be a bit of a it can distract you from your intentions. It can. That's probably the best place just on LinkedIn, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01: 34:12

LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_02: 34:13

Very I've never heard anyone say life is a team sport. That just gave me chills. Like that is I love that. It's so true.

SPEAKER_01: 34:21

And when Shelly gets chills of something, we know that's the universe speaking. So that's very cool.

unknown: 34:28

Awesome.

SPEAKER_01: 34:29

Uh well, thank you so much. Really appreciate you taking the time, and we're excited that you're moving into the healthcare mental health uh profession, and that pickleball will be such a significant part of that. I just think that's brilliant. Thanks.

SPEAKER_03: 34:46

Well, and thank you for what you're doing, getting the word out to people with all the different stories. I mean, it's just it's a delight. Like I said, soon always been a big podcast fan when they first went in and I was like, okay, I'm checking this out, and all the stories are just, you know, I don't know. Like it's like I tell you all, it's it's a delight, all the little gems, and it's worth the time to listen. So I'm just glad to be dishonored to be a part of it for sure.

SPEAKER_01: 35:06

Thank you. Well, we know everybody hears, everyone's gonna be delighted to have heard this one and watched the video, and that sweatshirt is so amazing. So, yeah, please share this with everyone you know, and thank you so much for your subscriptions, for your likes, for your comments. We just love you all, and we look forward to a new conversation next week. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_02: 35:28

Bye-bye. If you love our podcast, we'd be so grateful if you'd take a few seconds to follow or subscribe to Life Lessons from Pickleball. This ensures you'll never miss an episode and helps us continue these wonderful conversations.

SPEAKER_01: 35:43

On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, go to the show page and tap the follow button in the top right corner. And on YouTube, click the subscribe button under any of the episodes. Thanks so much. Hope to see you on the court.